Bute will Retire Pavlik, Kelly should fire promoter quick

can't really quote one post, but to the conversation above...

lucian bute has, imo, one of the best skill sets in the smw division. however, he hasnt been in the ring w/ the same competition as pavlik and hasnt been in the ring w/ anyone as good as pavlik. additionally, the kelly pavlik from the miranda and taylor fights who was coming into the ring at a trim (and healthy) 168ish is not the same kelly pavlik who could barely make weight against martinez and came into the ring at 178ish. i'm not about to write kelly off completely and say that what we saw against martinez is what kelly has become. i think he will look fresher a la his pre taylor days at a higher weight.

having said that, bute is going to present a WORLD of problems for him. i think kelly will be much better today at smw than at mw but if he comes into the fight w/ bute w/ the same mindset and gameplan....no good. but if he can really put his mind to working on some things, he can give bute all he wants. i'm willing to give bute the benefit of the doubt in the first andrade fight and chalk up his gassing to his alleged food poisoning during training...but kelly has been in wars w/ much better fighters than lucian has. andrade was finding bute...kelly can find bute.

 

bute is a bad style matchup for kelly. this much cannot be disputed. but this part of your post is ****ing stupid, no offense.

you are referring to a 2010 version of miranda, a 2009 version of zuniga, and andrade.

kelly fought miranda in 2007 when he was prime and less than a year removed from arguably beating abraham. kelly also fought a 2005 version of zuniga who was much better then than 5 years later and this isnt debatable and stopped them both. he also fought an undefeated taylor and then beat him again, and went the distance with hopkins and martinez.

like i said earlier, bute is bad for kelly. but what exactly are you claiming as bute's big claim to fame??

 

Zuniga is still really a MW also. But, to paraphrase Mark Twain, "This is why they actually have the fights".

 

atsch....as usual....

:good

 

i know, right? and the level of competition you have been in the ring w/ has no real bearing on how a potential fight will play out (see pavlik/martinez) but to the one point, and one point only, of who has done what in the ring (since that poster is holding those wins up like they are something special)...its not even close.

 

Solid post :good

for Bute claim to fame, let's wait-n-see.

 

It's better to shut up and look like an idiot than to open up your mouth and prove it...You just didn't figure that one out yet...:nut

 

Arum could have built money making machine around Kelly but he helped Kelly run the whole thing aground. I'll be willing to let Pavlik knock me out if he gets past Bute. I'll be rooting for him but this fight seems imprudent.

 

+1

 

in reference to the post you quoted....

i repeat my assertion that this is a tough fight for kelly. my feelings on bute are well known and posted repeatedly through this thread. i believe he is the goods.

call it weight/stamina problems as a result of alleged food poisoning or whatever...(i'm not saying those reports are not true)

if andrade would have followed the rules and followed the referee's instructions and gone to the neutral corner, bute loses that fight. he was done. completely and utterly done and stopped. andrade ****ed himself by not following the rules. he was not robbed as a lot of people think. his own actions cost him that fight but he wore bute down and stopped him. kelly pavlik is better than andrade, imo. no one has ever put kelly in that position, and a fighter similar to and not as good as kelly has put bute in that position. kelly has never needed to be saved by the bell, lucian has.

 

YEEEEEEHAW!!!


I'm seriously pulling for Pav in this one. He's not as bad as people have been saying. I think he's gonna whip that boy's ass. But, as everyone knows, I've been wrong before.

 

Have you ever seen Andrade/Stieglitz? I'm asking because that fight makes it pretty clear that Librado Andrade is a poor man's Kelly Pavlik. The similarities really stand out in that fight. What Andrade does at B level, Kelly does at A level.

I noticed that a few people brought up common opponents. That is not something Bute fans should lean on. It would actually tend to favor Kelly. If you look at KP and Lucian head to head, I tend to favor Bute, but if you base a prediction on past opposition, that very obviously favors Pav.

Sometimes hind sight is much clearer than present sight. I re-watched Pavlik/Zuniga the other day, looked up some stats, and did some comparisons. In the two years or so preceding the Zuniga fight Kelly fought 11 times. Only one of those fights took place at 160. All the rest happened above the middlweight limit.

The first two rounds of the Zuniga fight are on you tube. So is the HBO vid that shows Pav at around 180. There is no comparison. I honestly believe KP has been at least moderately weight drained the entire time he was at 160. I can only challenge people to look at the videos and judge for themselves.

If I could force Pavlik to do just one thing, I'd have him spend a couple weeks with Shillstone, and figure out what freaking division he belongs in.

 

yes, yes, and yes. that would definetly be putting the best foot forward. mackie is world class and kelly would definetly benefit greatly from working with him.

 

You said it yourself.

I didn`t answer to you. You should have noticed what I quoted.


But If you challenged me I answer to you that the part with Zuniga and Andrade 2009 version and Miranda 2010 is at least as stupid as my argument if you take that, no offense either.

Miranda was better than previous (you can follow Lennox lewis comment) and is 1 year younger than Bute and 29 so the argument of non-prime is flawed by far.
Andrade was much better than the first match and everybody agree this, and 31. Was he non-prime or weaker than in Kessler fight? Get out!
Zuniga was also 31 at that moment.

And of course the fact that NOBODY STOPPED ANDRADE AND ZUNIGA UNTIL LUCIAN IS STILL IRRELEVANT TO YOU.

OK, praise Pavlik but right nowneeds to beat somebody not Bute.

 

age has less to do w/ "prime" or when a fighter is or isnt in their "prime" than you are making out. a lot has to do w/ the type of rounds you have logged in the ring. miranda was sparked cold twice and really had no business in the ring w/ bute but for the fact that he had some sort of name recognition from his past days as a mw. how old is miguel cotto? you wanna try and convince me that he is still at peak form after what margo and pac did to him?

bute was out, done and stopped against andrade. the only thing saving bute from being in the position of starting a snow angel on the scorers table was the ropes he was leaning on for dear life. it was andrade's dumb fault for not following the rules. kelly pavlik is better than librado andrade. period.

so again i ask, what are you claiming as lucian's big claim to fame? i think the guy is the goods but he has nothing really to hang his hat on right now. what we do know for sure is that a guy who is similar to, but not as good as kelly pavlik stopped him.