Butter Bean Esch vs Tony Galento

Well, Foreman often had no leverage on his punches, and still blew people out. Just something to do with great muscle fibers. Louis's leverage was generally pretty good by contender standards--his positioning, precision, and sheer hitting power did the rest.

Re: Timing and sense of distance, I would point to the fact that in many fights, such as the Baer one below, he was extremely precise--most of his punches landed directly on the chin. If he had a poor sense of distance, one would not expect him to be quite this precise--even against a crude fighter like Baer.

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Might I suggest that you aply something of a double standard.

You highlight minor flaws of Louis while ignoring fundamentan and all encompasing flaws of later fighters like Foreman.

I do not wan't you to think that I am ungreatefull for your input because I am not but you have to get the ballence right.

 

This has struck the right note when dealing with Foreman vs. Louis.

Big George couldn't exploit Louis's flaws because Foreman's are MUCH worse. Whereas Louis was occasionally lazy with the jab, Foreman stuck it straight out and arm-punched with it constantly. Whereas Louis would sometimes inappropriately drop his hands, Foreman seldom had a guard at all, and when he did it resembled something between Muay Thai and patty-cake. He was open for everything, and only his talent saved him. Even his greatest asset--power--was something Louis also undeniably possessed.

 

Just talking of Louis and footwork...how many realise that initially in the amateur ranks, Louis was more of a safety-first boxer who danced on the balls of his feet?
This was taught to him by Holman Williams at the Brewster Gym. When Chappie Blackburn took over in earnest, he preferred Louis to have both feet on the canvas at all times, hence Louis' famous shuffling style.

 

There was a big debate up to this point about whether the flat footed or up on toes stance was better and both styles had their suporters.

 

Galento is the better of the two. Two-Ton was a real fighter who beat other contenders and gave top fighters a real scare. Butter Bean is a former toughman who fought other toughmen. Some of Butterbean’s opponents were so bad, the fights might as well have been fixed. ButterBean was almost always a 4 round fighter. You’d have to assume Glaento wins via TKO in the mid to late rounds. At his weight, Butterbean can not go a hard 10. No way.

 

Okay guys, I'm going to definitley take some time to reassess my argument so that it will be fresh, instead of just repetitive.

Let's give it up to Cross Trainer, fantastic poster who threw some fantastic things at me and got the better of it towards the end, especially utilising the Foreman example, who's entirely crude and a great bounds to jump off of with video results. Good job Cross, you ought to be a lawyer.:good

I'll be back in a couple of days to continue this after I get the time to really sit down and study the video's with the examples that Cross Trainer wants, with specific time examples and what not and we'll try to seal this specific argument in doing so.

So, whenever you see this thread bumped by me, it's time to continue.

It's great that we have such good analysts here at our forum.

 

Agree:good

 

And I would like to salute Amsterdam for the most valuable qualities in any forum poster--a critical eye and willingness to see beyond the myths to the substance behind them. Throughout this discussion, he has remained objective, reasonable, and above all perceptive, forcing me to look much deeper at Louis than I ever had to before. I can only look forward to many more discussions like this.

A 21 gun salute to Amsterdam, ladies and gentlemen.

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Galento was fat, sure, but he was a legitimate fighter, not a sideshow king-of-four rounders. I'm confident he would take out a guy like Butterbeam within five rounds.