By 2025 what will an ATG heavyweight list look like??

What weight was he champion at?

 

Well, Il Duce's smear campaign will have Ali down 20 notches.

1. "Sugar" Nikola Valuev
2. Ike Ibeabuchi
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Mike Tyson Round 1 last 30 seconds of the Spinks fight
5. Every fighter Mike Tyson ever fought before 1995
6. David "The RapistMaker" Tua
7. Michael Grant (he will unify or die by 2012)
8. Ray Mercer
9. Gerry Cooney
10. Jimmy Young

The Count Sir Bert Cooper will continue to get no love from you homos. :-(

 

That makes ABSOLUTELY no difference. None whatsoever. The reason is that we are talking about ATG status, and not status at that time when Charles was actually fighting. On an ATG basis, Charles must rightly be measured against the other fighters of his size and weight. Ditto for Dempsey, Tunney, Patterson, etc.

 

I also think Charles was excellent, but only in comparison with fighters his own size. Remember: if a cruiserweight division had existed during Charles's era, he would have fought in it, and would not have been a heavy. If Charles were fighting today, he would be a cruiserweight, and not a heavy. To rate Charles's chances as an ATG at heavy would be unfair to Charles.

Concerning Charles's future ATG status, I think the boxing world will come to its senses and rank him alongside Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano, Holyfield, and others as one of the very, very best ever to fight at 180 to 195 lbs.

 

Why not?

He fought at HEAVYWEIGHT, not at CRUISERWEIGHT. I think we can measure him against other HEAVYWEIGHTS, as Charles never fought any CRUISERWEIGHTS which did not come into being until the 80s.

When comparing Heavyweight greats we don't purely look at their ability and H2H ability, we take into account their record, defences, quality of opposition etc...

Charles can and should be ranked at Heavyweight, he fought in the unlimited weight class so should be ranked with the other men that fought there. Regardless of size.


using your logic then we should rank Bob Fitzsimmons as a Super-Middleweight. Bob was Heavyweight champion, Joe Calzaghe was Super-Middleweight champion (the weight division we are talking about), Bob was not, how do we compare these records, Bob has many men who are bigger than him on his record, Calzaghe does not through no fault of his one. We simply cannot compare them.

If anything we should compare fighters by the size of their opponents, if that makes sense.

 

As generations die ,the popularity base of fighters from their era necessarily diminishes.
Dempsey was perceived as greater than Louis ,and Marciano,who was thought of, in the 50's, as a cruder,slower ,facsimile of the Mauler.



Dempsey's contemporary fans died ,his popularity took a hit, Louis's and Marciano's, a boost.


Tunney will not make any top tens.
The advent of the Super heavy era ,has left many wondering how 190/200lb greats would cope with these modern, co- ordinated ,athletic ,behemoths?

I predict that the old brigade of, Sullivan,Corbett,Fitz Jeffries,Johnson,Willard, will essentially vanish from lists of ATG top tens.
Dempsey will be looked upon as too small,likewise Louis , but,to a lesser extent, as there is volumes of film of him at his best.

Analysis of Louis's quality of opposition ,whilst champ, will start a revisionist reversal ,at some point ,but the compactness and efficiency of his combinations,and his wonderfull correctly, delivered power shots, plus his longevity, will keep him in the mix.

Marciano will dive down the ratings, and linger around no 10 ,where he belongs imo.

Liston will stay about where he is.

Ali will allways be in the top 2 or 3.
Holmes should go up imo.

Frazier will be seen as a one dimensional swarmer who, could not beat a big hitting big man,,and as a champion who only had one game plan, get up and charge back in , which twice brought him to ignominious ko defeats . He will hover around the bottom of the ten.

Foreman will advance, his rewinning of the crown helps his legacy.

Lewis will advance appreciably maybe as high as no 3

Holyfield is difficult to predict, I think he will go up.

Tyson, ? NO idea.

The Klits will shoot up ,purely because their feats will be fresh in the minds of the few who will still follow boxing.

At some stage, questions about the dire quality of their competition will prompt a backlash ,and they will be demoted lower than they merit ,then creep back to their rightfull place , firmly outside the top ten.

 

Kenmore is a troll. A good one but a troll. Just trying to wind people up. He´s quite good at it. Don´t fall for it, GP.

 

Its not bothering me. It is a fairly valid point he is making, just not completely thought through.

 

Probably something like...

1) John L Sullivan
2) Jack Dempsey
3) Bob Fitzsimmons
4) Jim Jeffries
5) James Corbett
6) Rocky Marciano (stock will go up)
7) Joe Choynski
8) Wlad Klitchsko (stock will go up)
9) Jack Sharkey
10) Tommy Burns

Note: this is resume-wise. H2H is too subjective