Cain is at least somewhat overrated

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by andrewa1, Feb 18, 2019.



  1. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Everyone talks about him like he's the GOAT H2H and just had injuries interrupt his career. But that's really not fair.

    A. He gets a ton of credit despite a really **** poor resume. The best guy he ever beat was Dos Santos, and he lost once against him. How can we say how great he is H2H when he just hasn't been tested against nearly as wide an array of HW's as, say, Miocic?

    B. There are always excuses with Cain, in all three of his losses, but those excuses just don't look like they hold water to me. A. Both he and Dos Santos were injured in their first fight. Neither injury really appeared to have a meaningful impact on the course of the fight. He just got caught against a great puncher. B. "Sea level" Cain. This is the excuse that bothers me the most. He mainly seemed to have a lot of problems with the Troll's dimensions and his jui jitsu. The gassing was probably more related to those problems than to the sea level. C. The leg injury. He was clearly outmatched and caught hard very early. It reminds me of the Solis-Vitali fight and a number of others. The punch didn't look like much, but replay clearly shows the damage done to the orientation of the victim before the injury or the stoppage. Most of Ngannou's punches don't really look like much, but they clearly have a fight ending impact. The injury was secondary to the punch that probably would have ended it one way or another.

    C. Changing game. Cain looked tiny against Ngannou. He was at a huge size disadvantage. And really, how many high level HW's did Cain really beat who were remotely that much larger than him? No one, really. He was usually bigger or about the same size against the better fighters he faced. The two best ones he faced that he had a meaningful height disadvantage to he lost. The only "top" one he beat who had a meaningful weight advantage was Brock, who I just have problems taking too seriously. The talent pool is starting to get better in the HW division, now that the sport is a bit older and more penetrating now, and I think any version of Cain would have big problems running through it the way he did when he came up.

    It's interesting, Vitali Klitschko is probably my favorite modern era boxer, but tbf a lot of my problems with Cain can probably be applied to him. I think there are very logical distinctions in Vitali's favor in any such comparison, but I can definitely see how polarizing it is to put someone who has never been nearly as tested as others on such a high pedestal.

    I think Cain is ONE of the greatest HW's of all time, both in legacy and especially in H2H. But unlike conventional wisdom, and certainly unlike all the stuff UFC was pumping out last night, he is definitely not the GOAT in the former and very probably not the GOAT in the latter. And he achieved it in a very small historical timeframe with a very small talent pool that is only now starting to get larger. I think the Ngannou fight doesn't show that Cain is washed up as much as it shows that Cain wouldn't be such a beast in a deeper era.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  2. POTUS

    POTUS Future of This Industry Full Member

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    Belongs in a Quentin Tarantino movie
     
  3. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agreed OP.

    What gets me is that he was fed rematch after rematch. JDS, Big foot.. He literally fought those guys one after the other for like 2-4 years straight!

    You had Hunt, Mir, Reem, Carwin, Arlovski, Barnett etc around when Cain was active, yet he faced none of them. As soon as he fought someone who was well rounded (Werdum) he got smoked.

    His cardio is massively overrated. A lot of his activity was wall & stall. Look at Fedor in his three fights against Nog or the fight against Mirko for world class HW cardio. For what it's worth, Stipe's cardio is better. Look at his war with JDS - Unreal cardio. As soon as Cain gassed it was because he was fighting at "altitude"! Such BS. There was always an excuse waiting for this guy.

    I haven't even got him as the best of his era. He never cleared the top 5 or 3 once.

    I think Ngannou was always going to be a problem for Cain, even the best version of him. He is very hittable on the feet.

    I don't know if he's top 5. Fedor, Nog, Stipe, Werdum, Ubereem, Vov - there's been many amazing fighters at HW.
     
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  4. Francis75

    Francis75 FAB 4 Full Member

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    He's CLEARLY not the goat heavyweight, I don't know how anyone can justify that when you look at his career, who he fought, wins and loses. His teammate Cormier is better than him p4p all time as well as heavyweight all time let alone Fedor, Stipe, Werdum etc etc. Cain would be very lucky to be in the top 5 really. Just because Joe Rogan spouts BS all the time doesn't make it true. He also said Rousey would beat 50 % of male UFC bantamweights. LOL
     
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