Calazaghe or Toney?

He was getting outboxed by both(Nunn over 10 rounds), and I think Calzaghe has proven his chin on more than one occasion to just assume a one-punch KO would come so easily. Another thing that those guys didn't have on the level of Joe was in-fighting, which is something else you don't seem to take into account.

 

:roll:

What are you trying to say? Just type it out.

 

The only in and out fighter that gave toney problems was Roy and Roy was in out left right gave everybody problems. Nunn and Littles used constant lateral movement as soon as they slowed up and went straight back and forward they got knocked out. Calzaghe has NO lateral movement boxing ability at all.

 

Kessler is pretty predictable, and he still managed to knock Calslappy halfway across the ring on a couple of occasions....respect to him for that but that doesn't make him great, Calzaghe (despite ****** opinion on here) isn't exactly hard to hit. Toney actually is hard to hit, and when you do hit him nothing happens and you're likely to catch one on the way out more often than not. Kessler and Calzaghe (as has been pointed out) don't have lateral movement they both tend to come straight forward and straight backward which is just awful news for them against a guy like Toney.

 

So Joe could hang with Toney on the inside. He would get knocked out for sure. For SURE. Nunn outboxed Toney by staying on his feet CIRCLING using the jab. Calzaghe does not do this. He has to get inside to score shots or anything meaningful. Littles won one round before he got knocked the **** out.

 

It's easy to look at what one fighter did with success and assume another could replicate that effort. But if it's NOT his fight, he won't have the success.

Joe's not that great an in-fighter IMHO. Good, but nothing special. Yeah, he gets close and throws a bunch all over. But Calzaghe's not known as a body puncher and looks like he's at his best when he's coming in to attack and overwhelming his opponent.

I wouldn't expect a KO, but I could see a TKO win over Joe. His accuracy and hard hits would accumilate and take their toll eventually. I'm very sure Toney would outland Joe C and land the cleaner punches.

 

Actually Calzaghe hasn't really proven his chin at all, he's been down a few times to guys that don't hit all that hard.

Toney hits hard - and often.

 

You're basically saying that in and out movement can't be fast.

 

Thank god, I hate when these so called know it all posters talk crap that are apples and oranges. Like Kessler or Calzaghe use lateral movement or better yet use it for an entire round and base there offense off of it. Kessler is in and out and so is calzaghe. There whole fight was both going in and out. Thats the difference here.

 

I'm saying that looking good against crap is pretty easy, basically. Bringing in Mundine and Andrade in a discussion about James Toney is not relevent at all.

 

He is fast of hands, his foot speed is not all that at all. He comes in throws a lot of shots, the other guy gets defensive and calzaghe is back out and the guy(not even a counter puncher) throws a shot and calzaghe is not there. Its not his speed that is giving them problems at all. Its when he is in he throws a lot of shots. Calzaghe got caught coming in and dropped on his ass a few times by lesser fighters. Toney would have a field day.

 

The discussion between us was whether or not Kessler had any speed.

I brought up the Mundine fight because Mundine IS very fast of hand, and if you can't see that your blind. Kessler was right up there with him, holding his own in terms of handspeed. There's absolutely no denying that Kessler has quick hands. He isn't some slow puncher like Kelly Pavlik.

And Mundine isn't crap.

 

His speed of foot is one of his greatest assets.

 

Bingo. And that's the one area of the fight where predictable Kessler had his success, as I said before knocking Calzaghe halfway across the ring with an uppercut on one occasion. After that Calzaghe reverted to in and out tactics for the rest of the fight and got the win. Kessler when you look at his record is nothing special, and even less special when you actually see him fight whereas Toney was/is an immensely skilled, old school fighter who can deal with pretty much anything that is thrown at him even when at a physical disadvantage.

Against Calzaghe or Kessler he wouldn't be at a physical disadvantage, not at all. He'd have skills on his side, chin on his side and would only have a slight disadvantage speed-wise against Calzaghe. It wouldn't be enough, Joe would be beaten, and badly. Kessler even worse.

 

It is not speed of foot. It is a difference. Judah has speed. But judah does not constantly jump in and out like Calzaghe. Judah can get in and throw a bomb in a blink. Calzaghe is just in and out in and out. It is not his speed its the constant movement. Just b/c he keeps doing it frustrates the other guy especially if he is slow and not a counter puncher. Calzaghe would beffudle them like he did Lacy.