Calling all Bute fans / Super Middle followers...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bazza12, Nov 28, 2010.


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  1. elchivito

    elchivito master betty Full Member

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    I have it the same. Ward looked shitty, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Kessler and Froch have earned their positions and even though I don't doubt Bute's talent, he still hasn't beat a worthy opponent to make me want to rank him higher than those 3. At this point I wouldn't rank him higher than Glenn Johnson.
     
    elchivito, Nov 28, 2010
    elchivito, Nov 28, 2010
    #31
  2. Farmboxer

    Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

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    Ward would refuse to fight in the tournament if Bute were allowed in. Ward refused to fight in tournament unless he got all his fights in his home town with his personal ref and judges, etc. Ward is insecure! Bute would knock him out and should be allowed to fight Ward, but rumors are that Ward will leave Showtime if Bute were allowed to fight him.
     
    Farmboxer, Nov 28, 2010
    Farmboxer, Nov 28, 2010
    #32
  3. booradley

    booradley Mean People Kick Ass! Full Member

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    The situation at 168 is intriguing. Head to head, based on a number of style issues, I'd pick Bute over Froch in a heart beat, but Carl's resume' shits all over Bute's.
     
    booradley, Nov 29, 2010
    booradley, Nov 29, 2010
    #33
  4. bazza12

    bazza12 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Most of your argument here is based around the Super 6 tying up most of the pool of top Super Middles.

    We all knew this, Bute himself must have knwon this, for a 2 year period, those 6 fighters would be fighting and beating each other to prove who was the best at the weight class. Why did he not enter?

    Whining about resume???? You cant rank a fighter based on how you think he would do. Well, you can, but its fairly unheard of system. Resume shows who a fighter has fought, and it shows that Ward has fought Kessler and won easily, Froch has fought Abraham and won easily, as well as Dirrell, Taylor and Pascal, with a close defeat to Kessler. Kessler has beaten Froch, and Dirrell has beaten Abraham and lost closely to Froch.

    Bute has beaten a clearly past-best Miranda, fighting above his career best weight, and Andrade twice. The first time he was knocked out in the last round, everyone saw that. The second time he won fantatsically, I'll give him much credit for that.

    However, it remains that the only truly high class fighters Bute has beaten, are Andrade (who Kessler has already beaten), and Bika (who Ward just beat).

    And a quick question about pound for pound rankings. David Haye has shown great skills since moving up to heavyweight. Do you feel he has shown himself to be capable of being in the top 10 pound for pound? After all, its not all about resume as you say...
     
    bazza12, Nov 29, 2010
    bazza12, Nov 29, 2010
    #34
  5. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    And who said that the supermiddleweight division is weak ?
     
    Imperial1, Nov 29, 2010
    Imperial1, Nov 29, 2010
    #35
  6. David UK

    David UK Boxing Addict banned

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    Froch
    Ward
    Abraham
    Dirrell
    Bute
     
    David UK, Nov 29, 2010
    David UK, Nov 29, 2010
    #36
  7. bazza12

    bazza12 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So basically you kind of agree that Bute shouldnt be ranked ahead of either Froch or Ward?



    People seem to be making wafer thin excuses based around the Super 6 fighting and beating each other and Bute not being involved.

    Bute not being involved doesnt count against him, but it sure as hell doesnt count for him. While the best are fighting the best, weve got Lucian fighting people like Jesse Brinkley and past prime Edison Miranda.

    There's no way his recent record amounts to a top 2 Super Middle spot, and anyone who puts him in or near their pound for pound top 15 needs to get a grip
     
    bazza12, Nov 29, 2010
    bazza12, Nov 29, 2010
    #37
  8. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    I think the Super Middleweight Division is Helter Skelter but here is how it boils down:

    Ward beat #1: Kessler
    Bute beat #5 and than #3: Andrade
    Froch lost to #4 Kessler but beat #5 Taylor and #6 Abraham

    Ring had Ward number one after the Kessler win, but they perhaps unfairly let Bute slip by him with his shocking blow out of #3 Andrade.
     
    The Mongoose, Nov 29, 2010
    The Mongoose, Nov 29, 2010
    #38
  9. bazza12

    bazza12 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Okay but since that, Bute has beaten Miranda and Brinkley.

    Froch has beaten Abraham and went close with Kessler.

    Ward has beaten Green and Bika.

    Does Bute remain in the top 2 based on beating fighters I'd say every other super 6 fighter would beat? Or does he slip.

    I'd say its only fair to move him down.

    I'm not questioning his skills, but they need to be shown against rivals of similar level.
     
    bazza12, Nov 29, 2010
    bazza12, Nov 29, 2010
    #39
  10. laffie

    laffie Montreal Full Member

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    I agree completely that Froch is ahead of Bute. Ward: maybe. He has only one great win. The rest of his resume is weakest than Bute's. Not sure about Ward. But the way Froch beat Abraham, he diserves his spot. Bute will have his chance to grab it in the next year.
     
    laffie, Nov 29, 2010
    laffie, Nov 29, 2010
    #40
  11. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Unforunately, Ward and Bute are doing enough to hold their spots but Froch has faced the toughest comp overall. History will be very kind to him during this run despite not claiming the top spot at the moment.

    Its a similar situation to say Ezzard Charles destroying all the top Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight contenders while Billy Fox and Gus Lesnevich sat on their top two spots.
     
    The Mongoose, Nov 29, 2010
    The Mongoose, Nov 29, 2010
    #41
  12. laffie

    laffie Montreal Full Member

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    Abraham is not top 3. He wasn't before his fight against Froch. You just want to make a better case for Froch. Abraham lost to Dirrell, so he can't be ahead. He lost a second fight in a row. All he has as a SMW is a single win, against a shot Taylor.

    Don't start me! :nono
     
    laffie, Nov 29, 2010
    laffie, Nov 29, 2010
    #42
  13. SuperiorBeen

    SuperiorBeen Active Member Full Member

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    It doesn't matter what's happening in S6 Bute is still #1 ;) S6 is just an elimination tournament to face Bute hehe!
     
    SuperiorBeen, Nov 29, 2010
    SuperiorBeen, Nov 29, 2010
    #43
  14. Master Lewis

    Master Lewis Active Member Full Member

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    Taylor was not even a real SMW and he didn't have a single good win at this weight, putting AA before Bute is just ridiculous.

    1-Ward
    2-Froch
    3-Bute
     
    Master Lewis, Nov 29, 2010
    Master Lewis, Nov 29, 2010
    #44
  15. Master Lewis

    Master Lewis Active Member Full Member

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    Maybe, but only if Bute remain undefeated and he will be if he go on and fight 3 other guys like Brinkley.
     
    Master Lewis, Nov 29, 2010
    Master Lewis, Nov 29, 2010
    #45
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