calzaghe best british boxer ever ??

I'm surprised, pleasantly, that there hasn't been more "He's #1 without a doubt!" posts here.

Don't mean to insult any of the Brit forum members of course, but it's the message getting aired a lot at the moment in the media and I'm kinda expecting to see it more...even over at the BBC forums, while plenty support that view, there's been a fair amount of opposition to it as well which I expected even less. Gary Lockett's fulsome praise of him for example has had a mixed reaction.

I still think the Lacy and Kessler bouts are of more importance to his legacy than the Hopkins and RJJ fights.

I always feel like a bit of a ******* bashing Joe, though...feel I should be for him 100%, best ever and all that. But it just doesn't feel right.

 

OK very briefly as we've covered this a few times before. Calzaghe is nowhere near the best British boxer of all the time either on technique or accomplishment. It can be argued that he was a two weight world champion but his CV is very flimsy when a good critic gets his teeth into. His recent years have been better but it does not cancel out the years of Tocker Pudwell BS we were subjected to. I think he is a cert for Top Ten on the basis that he has an argument at been the number one.

Eubank past his best, Jones past his best, Hopkins past his best, Kessler unproven and Lacy will never ammount to anything sadly because he was very good.

To be a true ATG you have to have great victiories and longevity. Calzaghes certainly got the longevity but sitting on top of an empty divison watching the world go by doesn't count in his favour. The Reid win was ok.... Reid was past it though, Woodhall had had his day too. Brewer and Mitchell were yesterdays men too.

Had he beaten Pavlik then that would have been a big plus as it was a proven champion in their prime. It would mean nothing now, same goes for a dawson victory. Stylistically too Calzaghe falls short. He reminds me of a poor mans Carlos Monzon but without the technical proficiency. A career of incorrect punching no matter what the volume is going to go against him as is his cringewothy showboating.

Calzaghe's numbers stack up well enough to give him an argument but tbh Lennox dominance plus willingness to fight the best throughout his career put him head and shoulders above Calzaghe in terms of achievement and his classy punch picking gives him the edge in boxing ability too.

Calzaghes fitness and workrate is something to behold. And i'd struggle to name any other British fighter who comes close in these departments.

 

There are a few points i disagree with here:

For a start, Reid, Mitchell and Brewer had all just narrowly last their titles before fighting Calzaghe, two of them to Ottke by SD, losing your title in that fashion doesn't automatically make you a man of yester year.

Yes Jones, and Eubank were past their best, but Bernard Hopkins was rated no1 in the Light heavy weight division, and had recently came of two good victories, and we all know what happened to Pavlik just the other week there.

Kessler for me was a very good win, and in my opinion he was at least as proven as Kelly Pavlik.

Although I agree with you that Lewis is probably the greatest british boxer, I personally feel that Calzaghe isn't far behind him and his resume isn't as bad as you make out, there are quite a few good names in there.

 

Fitzsimmons, Wilde, Lennox Lewis, Ted 'Kid' Lewis, Buchanan - probably all come above him.

Is Joe the greatest ever Welsh boxer?

 

Cheers!:good

 

The thing that's surprising me the most is the amount of Calzaghe threads on General. Just in the first 5 pages alone, I counted up 85 threads. I mean, people are just obsessing over him, for and against, in a way I've rarely seen since I've been here.

You usually get the "Cotto is unstoppable", "Manny is the best", "Wlad/Vitali is an ATG" type of posts after they win but not usually quite this many. At the very least, Calzaghe's ability to get people talking here is something to see.

 

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Ted 'Kid' Lewis
5. Ken Buchanan

Then I'd start thinking about where Calzaghe fits in. These are set in stone for me, whereas 6-10 can change.

By the way kurt, if you want to watch Wilde or Fitzsimmons you can. I know its easier to bury our heads in the sand, but the footage is out there, albeit grainy. It's not even hard to find.

They are both moderately impressive on film considering the eras we are talking about here. H2H is not a big factor, their own achievements are not any less because it was a century ago, its all relative. If you put Calzaghe back in 1900 he might not look so good. If you put Fitzsimmons in 2008 he may look a beast. It's not relevant to greatness.

 

Young man in 100 years time people will be saying the same about Lewis etc having been the best all due to what they have been told. Lewis, Tyson etc etc would have eat Fitzsimmons at HW and same goes for JC at middle and LHW.

I have seen clips of the Corbett fight and the Lang fight and to be honest it was worse than watching gypo bare knuckle fighting.

 

And wouldn't they be correct in assuming Lewis is still one of the greatest of all-time if thats what they are told? Of course there might be more competetion in 100 years time. Nobody perpetuates these myths for the fun of it.

 

Skill wise Buchanan was superb.

 

These myths are perpetuated for fun. Please point me to any footage which actually shows why people rate Fitzsimmons so highly. Its all a myth, its like people who claim Elvis was the King etc etc.

 

Would you place him above turpin who beat SRR as well as the others like Lewis, Fitzsimmons, Wilde and buchanan?

 

Elvis was the king.

 

Brilliance

I love this post... "its like people who claim Elvis was the King etc etc." :deal
Awesome.

First thing I do when I wake up tommorrow, read that post again. I promise. :good Focking brilliant.