Calzaghe couldn't have done any better in terms of comp than he did.

The part in red is what you added to what I said.

After the Tarver fight, he said that he had been feeling for some time now that 175 was a better weight for him. I never said he claimed it throughout his career.

Nothing was made up.

Again, you are quoting me as saying things I didn't say.

I said he moved up AFTER he LOST, not BECAUSE he lost. What's the difference? One can be known with certainty, the other can only be guessed at.

I have seen you post that a good many times in the past, and self assessment is hardly a reliable measure. We (you and me) are usually blind to our biases and consequently, we are not the best ones to ask about them.

I don't need to ask around. I've been reading your posts for some time. IMO, yo have some bias in favour of Hops and Holy. Just my opinion. And this is not necessarily a negative thing. it's just that no-one is completely unbiased in these matters.

BTW, I mentioned you bias in resoponse to your earlier suggestion of bias on my part. I also mentioned your 'fanaticism' in response to your characterizing me as a fanatic. For the reasons I just explained, I may have biases and be blind to certain things, but I'm not alone there.

 

Actually you did...

Actually, you did.

Saying that, even tho he had said BEFORE he lost that he was moving up after the Taylor fight. He didnt move up when he lost...he moved up when he said he would move up.

If you feel that way, then fine. But I NEVER said I feel I am unbiased (Id like to think I am...), I said I am known on here as an unbiased poster. Go look at the vote on the committee (I had people that NEVER agree with me saying it and voting for me...shocked the **** outta me to be honest)...or whatever the case may be.

If you feel I am slighted toward Hops and Holy...then thats cool, but in those occasions, you also have been on the OTHER side of the arguements.

But as I said, I never make up anything. I never degrade the opposite fighter unfairly. I never post things without researching. I have picked MANY times against the fighter that I liked more.

Again, if you think that I am biased, then I cant change your mind...but I wasnt self asserting that I wasnt, I was saying others (many others actually) have said the opposite.

Its all good tho.

:thumbsup

 

In quoting my post, you proved my version of what i said.

Thank you.

As I originally stated, Bernard stated that for a while he felt that 175 would be a better weight for him (This came in the post-Tarver interview). I never claimed that he said it

This content is protected

. You added that little gem and that is apparent to anyone who reads the whole thread.

As far as the comments about when he moved up, I said originally that he moved up after a couple of losses at 160. I never said that he moved up because he lost at 160.

My statement is factually correct and indisputable.

You stated that he said he was moving up after Taylor. I hadn't heard that but I won't dispute it. It's very possible he did say that. However, the sport is replete with examples of fighters saying one thing and doing another. Therefore, my comment : hemoved up after losing at middlewt is unchallengable, whereas yours: He moved up because he said he was going to, is possibly true and possibly not.


Regarding the biases, as I mentioned, we all have our biases. Yours (as far as I have observed) relate to overrating BHOP and Hollyfield). I have mine too. It would require someone other than me to point them out.

We all strive for objectivity, most of the time. In general, i regard your posts as worth reading. If I'm scanning through a lot of posts, your's is one of the avatars I stop at, and read. (For that reason, I prefered your old avatar as a number of others use your chico avatar).

I would place you in the top 10% of posters on here, with guys like Kg, Amsterdam, Brooklyn1550, Presscott and many others. (Yes, Presscott can be a pain in the arse, but he knows his stuff. He certainly has a shitload of biases.)

I have been following the sport since before Bernard was born, so I bring a lengthy perspective as well. That said I'm sure I have biases.

I understand where serious posters are coming from, even if i completely disagree with them.

I hope to continue to enjoy this site and the diversity of views expressed here.

 

Reading this...I honestly apologize. I took your words out of context (like I said...Im never too good looking to admit Im wrong :yep )...and I appreciate the kind words.

Atta way to totally disarm me.

:twisted:

:thumbsup

 

Did you even read this thread:huh Why don't you mention Mitchell (when champ)? He fought Brewer and beat him, end of. Who the **** is Froch? He's less to Calzaghe at this stage of their careers than JC was to Jones severl years back. Froch hasn't done a thing to warrant a fight with JC. Trinidad? Are you having a laugh.:nut

 

As I mentioned, it's obvious that you know your stuff in the facts department and that you're passionate about your positions. That's refreshing on a forum where quite a few guys just jump in with a short term view, the fad of the day.

And there have been times when I've found your posts, on reflection, to bring a perspective that I hadn't considered.

As I've stated, I think Bernard has little or no chance against Calzaghe at this stage in his career. I just finished watching Jones-Trinidad. Roy has earned a little bit of credibility back (at least to the casual fan. personally, I see it as a win ove a MUCH smaller man )

That said, a bout with Roy is very winnable for Bernard and would be a more fitting end to his great career.

I will be on here, if BHOP and Joe ever fight, to say: We all knew that was going to happen.

Or possibly, to eat the biggest heaped helping of crow ever served !


Keep on postin' dude.

:good :happy :good

 

And the debate rolls on. I've manage to count at least six new Calzaghe threads this morning & those are just the ones that name him in the title. He wasn't even fighting last night & his fanatics wonder why people are turning against him.:roll:

 

OK. Here's 5 fights he could've taken in his career, that he DIDN'T, and that harms his legacy.

1. Charles Brewer, IBF Super-middleweight champion, Early in 1998-2000.

Brewer was fresh off a victory against Joey DeGrandis, and was after a Calzaghe fight. Calzaghe had just won the WBO against Chris Eubank strap and could've attempted to unify the titles, but decided to spent 1998 fighting Juan Carlos Giminez and someone else I've never heard of. Charles Brewer had just beaten Herol Graham too, and was ready to come to the UK to face Calzaghe. Joe didn't want it, and so Brewer got beat by Sven Ottke instead.

He went on too fight Charles Brewer of course, who was by then well past his best, in 2002. But a unification bout at this stage in his career would've made him a big name in the USA, something that didn't happen until Jeff Lacy.

2. Sven Ottke. Anytime, Ever.

Sven Ottke was a cheating German ******* who was much worse than Joe Clazaghe for being a hometown fighter. But he needed to get beat. Ottke was prepared to fight Joe in Germany, but they didn't EVER make the fight. To have a divisional rival remain undefeated whilst you claiming to be champion harms your credebility, and Joe should've established his dominance of the division. He NEEDED to do boxing a favour and put Ottke out of his misery. Anytime after Ottke beat Brewer, Ottke became the main nemesis for Joe Calzaghe.

For whatever reason, maybe they were scared of being robbed in Germany, they never made the fight. Which is a shame because Ottke was never as good as Calzaghe. And for the record, even though I have a low opinion of Ottke, it would've been a hard fight. Ottke was a serious amatuer and one of the best eastern european boxers of his generation, he was crafty and sly and not to be underestimated.

3. Eric Lucas 2001-2003. WBC Super-Middleweight champion

Not a mega-fight, but a much needed unification fight in the super-middleweight division. If Calzaghe wasn't prepared to go to Germany and fight Ottke he should've been prepared to fight the other claimant to the title, which was Eric Lucas. Failing that he should've made a fight with Antwun Echols. Instead Calzaghe fought rarely, and defended his WBO strap in wales against some poor opposition David Starie, Tocker Pudwill, Mario Viet, Will McIntyre. The only two names of worth were Byron Mitchell and Charles Brewer, both faded from former glories and previously beaten.

4. Roy Jones Jnr at light-heavyweight 1997-2003.

Joe Calzaghe only made a name for himself around 97-98, and Roy was at Light-Heavy by then, so its not fair to say that Joe ducked him or anything. But If Joe wanted to make an impact he could've stepped up to light-heavy no problem and taken this fight. Jones was crying out for opponents, taking on Glen Kelly and those other stiff. But Calzaghe never wanted it, ever, at any time, fearing Roy Jones and rightly so.

5. Bernard Hopkins 2001-2005 at super-middleweight.

This fight had been talked about, and I believe negotiations happened, but never came off. This is a big shame for Calzaghe, regardless of who's to blame for it not happening. Hopkins was a certified legend after beating Felix Trinidad, he could've retired right there and got in the Hall of Fame. Calzaghe needed some big US names on his record. However, it didn't happen, and we saw Calzaghe fight poor opposition in his hometown and lose massive credibility.

Part of the reason I think people picked Jeff Lacy to beat him was because of this. Calzaghe had been going through the motions for so long against **** like Evans Ashira, Mger Mrkttkatan and Tocker Pudwill that we'd forgotten how good he was, back when he'd just beaten Eubank and Reid and Sheika.


It is a tragedy that Calzaghe didn't really step it up sooner. The Kessler and Lacy wins were impressive and have shown us that he's one of the most underrated and forgotten about champions of the last 10 years. The problem is, all the big fights have gone, and fights with Hopkins and Jones can never have the same impact they would've had 2 or 3 years ago.

If he fights Hopkins, Jones and Woods before he retires, and wins all three, he can claim to be an ATG, but he should've accomplished more considering the gifts he possessess.

 

Very well said:good

 

Great post.

:good