Calzaghe fanboys! Convince me that Joe deserves to be ranked higher than RJJ or BHop!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Drunkenboxer, Dec 5, 2008.


Page 1 of 7
  1. Drunkenboxer

    Drunkenboxer Least Eligible Bachelor Full Member

    60
    6
    May 12, 2006
    Calzaghe Fanboys! Convince me that Joe Calzaghe deserves to be ranked higher than RJJ or B-Hop in the scope of boxing history...
    Because I just don't believe it.
    I acknowledge that Joe Calzaghe is a great fighter and that he beat both B-Hop and RJJ fair and square, but what did it prove? As a diehard Kostya Tszyu fan I diplomatically choose NOT to brag about his victory over Julio Cesar Chavez because he was past his prime. Don't like the comparison? Allow me to express the point in greater detail.

    His victory over RJJ means nothing. Roy Jones Junior was SHOT, and I never use that phrase flippantly. He'd accomplished nothing since his 3 straight losses, and anyone who followed RJJ's career in real time (Rather than catching up on it in the RJJ/JC pre-fight hype) could see that father time had long-since beaten the crap out of his tools with the average-stick. And to those of you who try to annoyingly over-simplify the whole SHOT vs NOT debate by saying "Blah, JC is only 3 years older", may I remind you that RJJ had spent the better part of 2 decades basically playing musical chairs with weight divisions and title belts, while Joe Calzaghe maintained an average fighting weight for nearly 15 years...

    As for his victory over Hop. Yes, a hard fought win that not many could accomplish! I'm not gonna throw petrol on the prime-vs-prime fire, but we all know there was a great 36 year old in there vs a great 43 year old, and it was close.

    Let's talk legacies.
    The legacies of Joe Calzaghe and Bernard Hopkins are somewhat similar in that they both chose to nest and dominate one division rather than move up and down the way Jones Jr did. But did Joe Calzaghe really dominate? Bernard Hopkins unified the three major alphabet titles at middleweight, as did Jones Jr when he settled at LHW. People can criticize the resumes of both RJJ and B-hop for the standard of some of their opponents whilst they reigned as undisputed champions, but they won all the fights necessary and beat the best their respective divisions threw at them.

    Calzaghe on the other hand DID NOT unify super middleweight. He was almost certainly the best fighter at his weight for a long time, but one has to wonder why he let bull**** politics and red tape stop him from staging unification bouts with the likes of Sven Ottke, Marcus Beyer and Eric Lucas. He undoubtedly would have beaten any of them, but now we can only ponder the matter as the fickle nature of negotiations prevented him from being able to chop off those loose ends. I'm particularly interested in the thoughts of people who like to say that Hopkins "ducked" Joe shortly after the Tito fight, as the fight was not made due to similar problems...

    This thread is not a dig at Joe Calzaghe, nor is it a dig at level headed boxing fans who happen to like JC. It's for those leg-humping, one-eyed, chant-yelling nut huggers who think that RJJ was simply a media myth and Bernard Hopkins is a dirty racist (Who gives a **** if he is anyway?).

    You punks know who you are...
     
    Drunkenboxer, Dec 5, 2008
    Drunkenboxer, Dec 5, 2008
    #1
  2. Monstar

    Monstar The Future.. Full Member

    11,166
    0
    Oct 10, 2007
    they're gonna say "because he beat them both"
     
    Monstar, Dec 5, 2008
    Monstar, Dec 5, 2008
    #2
  3. jc

    jc Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,971
    14
    Sep 9, 2004
    Are there many fans saying he should be placed over Roy Jones?:huh
     
    jc, Dec 5, 2008
    jc, Dec 5, 2008
    #3
  4. stonerose

    stonerose Guest

    i don't think there are that many who do are there ? the only thing worse than one of his irrational knockers who just can't seem to get it round their heads that he's a special talent are the people you talk of who feed the previous bell-ends.
     
    stonerose, Dec 5, 2008
    stonerose, Dec 5, 2008
    #4
  5. King Dan

    King Dan Golovkin Full Member

    3,589
    1
    Feb 24, 2005
    C'mon guys, we all know Calzaghe just beat Jones and Hopkins and should therefore be ranked ahead of them in all time stature.

    Calzaghe is in the all time top 20, easily!







    :yep
     
    King Dan, Dec 5, 2008
    King Dan, Dec 5, 2008
    #5
  6. treva1977

    treva1977 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,784
    3
    May 23, 2008
    yep........because he beat them both...........lol only joking.
    they both will stand higher than calzaghe in the record books over all if calzaghe retires now.
    ​
     
    treva1977, Dec 5, 2008
    treva1977, Dec 5, 2008
    #6
  7. "TKO"

    "TKO" Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,386
    806
    Jun 23, 2007
    I am a Calzaghe fan and I don't think he should so you won't catch me really entering this debate. All I am going to say is that the penultimate paragraph is incorrect. He did unify super middleweight and against two champions who had been far more impressive and dominant/desctuctive than any of the beltholders mentioned.
     
    "TKO", Dec 5, 2008
    "TKO", Dec 5, 2008
    #7
  8. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Are you kidding??! Of course Calzaghe deserves to be ranked higher in all-time pound-for-pound terms than Jones or Hopkins.

    A 9-year WBO title reign at supermiddleweight beating guys like Reid, Woodhall, Brewer and Sheika turning the Cardiff Ice Rink into a feared fortress, then he stepped it up in his mid-30s by beating the new Tyson, Jeff Lacy, the man who has always justified the hype. He then stopped Peter Manfredo, unified the division in his 10th year as champion by beating Mikkel Kessler, took an SD over a young, hungry, peak-fit Bernard Hopkins and then took a UD over a peak Roy Jones in a fight that just had to happen.

    Need I go on??

    Joe has a better resume than Hopkins or Jones, he has won more world titles, he has won more world titles in more weight divisions, and at his peak he showed, by beating guys like Rick Thornberry, Byron Mitchell and Lacy, that he is capable of greater skill and ability than both Jones and Hopkins. He also had a longer run than either of those two at world pound-for-pound number 1.

    It's a no-brainer...
     
    DINAMITA, Dec 5, 2008
    DINAMITA, Dec 5, 2008
    #8
  9. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

    19,216
    2
    Dec 10, 2005
    I'm not going to try to convince you, you can believe what you like.

    I don't think many people would rank him over RJJ. There are strong reasons to argue that he should be ranked over Hopkins.

    Calzaghe did unify at 168, at about the same age as Hopkins did at 160.

    And the proposed Hopkins v Calzaghe fight in 2002 did not fail to materialise for 'similar reasons' to Calzaghe v Ottke not happening. Calzaghe was willing to go to the US to face Hopkins, Hopkins scuppered the fight.
     
    Cobbler, Dec 5, 2008
    Cobbler, Dec 5, 2008
    #9
  10. jaycuban

    jaycuban Cubans Do It Better ! Full Member

    3,259
    1
    Apr 27, 2007
    are there people acutally saying he should rank higher than Roy or Hop ?
     
    jaycuban, Dec 5, 2008
    jaycuban, Dec 5, 2008
    #10
  11. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Pugilist64 said this the other day, China-Hand-Joe often says similar, and Rickx1 said Calzaghe is top 20 OAT, so yes, there are Cal fans who do often come out with this stuff.
     
    DINAMITA, Dec 5, 2008
    DINAMITA, Dec 5, 2008
    #11
  12. jaycuban

    jaycuban Cubans Do It Better ! Full Member

    3,259
    1
    Apr 27, 2007
    wait wait, are there people seriously saying he should rank higher than Roy or Hop ? SERIOUSLY ?
     
    jaycuban, Dec 5, 2008
    jaycuban, Dec 5, 2008
    #12
  13. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

    19,216
    2
    Dec 10, 2005
    One out of four in Cardiff, but not at the ice rink. That's an even lower hit rate than you normally manage with your 'facts'.

    As I've said before, if the facts were so damaging, you would just present them, not misrepresent or dress them up.
     
    Cobbler, Dec 5, 2008
    Cobbler, Dec 5, 2008
    #13
  14. rickx1

    rickx1 Legend Full Member

    3,183
    0
    Sep 16, 2008
    At the end of the day, There was less than 3years age different in the jones fight,
    Joe is amazing for his age and deserves credit for this,
    Roy jones got took to SCHOOL by Joe calzaghe.
    Everyone knows calzaghe would beat both a prime roy and bhop,
    The guy was programmed to win, The harder the fight the better he performs, Obviously a prime rj would give him problems so all this would do is increase calzaghes performance to the point where he beats roy.
    Deal with it.
    :tong
     
    rickx1, Dec 5, 2008
    rickx1, Dec 5, 2008
    #14
  15. stonerose

    stonerose Guest


    so 3 then ? and at least 2 of them are only on the wind-up anyway . there's far more on here who give him no credit at all and label him with such " hilarious " monikers as " calslappy ". these cretins are just as bad
     
    stonerose, Dec 5, 2008
    stonerose, Dec 5, 2008
    #15
Page 1 of 7