Calzaghe fans! Be honest, would Joe have won if he'd been fighting 2001-2005 B-Hop??

based on what?

this is the whole essence of the calzaghe argument for me. there's no benchmark or defining moment in his career.

a fighter who never put himself on the line - and now only wants to fight faded greats with a combined age of about 84.

 

There was nothing faded about Hopkins going into the fight but now he's faded ..atsch

 

are you suggesting at hopkins' age he's an equal proposition to when he was middleweight champ 10 years earlier?

of course hopkins isn't what he use to be, but his longevity is strong.

 

The thing I have issue is when it concerns Hopkins age is no one can really answer honestly when his prime was ..10 yrs ago he was still having trilogies with Robert Allen before his bout with Tito if im not mistaken ..So to say age was a factor when he fought Joe is a discredit not only to Joe but To Hopkins as well ..

Especially when its clear that Hopkins just got better with age .If he had won the split decision do you honestly think there would be this much negative emphasis on age ? No but no diffrent then in the Taylor loses he became shot over night ..I don't subscribe to that for the simple fact that this was probably the best Hopkisn Joe could have faced based on experience alone .

And I have followed his career since his debut at lt heavy ..There was nothing that much diffrent in Hopkins as far as physical ability he wasn't that much faster if anything he got better as his career progressed ..This is why most people felt that if he and Jones did rematch Hopkins could have won ..And this was before his KO losses to Johnson and Tarver .

 

I see your points. But for me, it had to do with the fact that he was completely gased against Calzaghe. He never gets gased late in fights. He's always fresh. But still, how much that had to do with Calzgahe's pace or age is something we will never know. Probably a combination of both. So in that sense, he did age against Calzaghe.

 

"most people" did not feel that hopkins could have beaten jones in a rematch. i guess the board can raise their hands if they disagree with me here.
please don't use sweeping statements to back up your point of view.

the reason why this is a discredit to joe - and not to hopkins - is because, despite ruling a poor middleweight division (granted), he made his name fighting on the world stage.

calzaghe certainly was the best at SMW - no-one can deny that - but he consciously, alongside frank warren, chose not to come over to the US, make his name against fighters known in the US and put himself in a position to get a legitimate career-defining fight against a prime jones or hopkins.

you're using a grey area by saying that no-one knew when hopkins' prime was to try to sweeten his loss to joe.

you say that hopkins got better with age, but i think it's more accurate to say that, as i said before, he has longevity on his side.

he simply doesn't throw enough punches nowadays.

but i will offer this lifeline.
the irony when comparing the careers of hopkins and calzaghe is that hopkins was never a PPV fighter, and was never genuinely that well known by the beercan boxing fan until he beat oscar and tito - smaller guys than him and huge PPV draws.

after saying that, i think the tito win was an outstanding display of boxing by a master boxer.

take away the oscar and tito wins though, and the only thing (for me) that seperates the two is how they chose to fight their careers - and calzaghe's inability to eclipse his dominant wins against lesser mortals against proven world class fighters in their prime.

proven world class fighters in their prime......

 

did you watch the klitschko fight tonight because i watched it on setanta tonight and they constantly reinforced and mentioned how HBO punchstats had thompson landing more that is proposterous but if in the remote chance that it was fact it goes to show you how misleading they are...to me punchstats are worthless real judges dont have access to them so i dont use them to score

 

:good :good :good :good :good :good :good :good :good :good

I didnt read any further down than this post as it hits the nail squarely on the head.

Ive always felt that JC would beat Hopkins & if Hopkins never pulled out of the fight 4 or 5 yrs ago when they were both nearer their primes then he would have got his ass handed to him more severe.
Hopkins never fancied himself to beat Joe... ever.
The only reason he actually fought Joe was because Joe went to the USA & called him out face to face, he knew that Hopkins pride would force him to say yes, that was the ONLY way B-Hop would have fought Joe.

It turns out Hopkins thoughts were right after all.... He couldnt beat Calzaghe.

END OF DISCUSSION - CLOSE THREAD IMMEDIATELY !

:thumbsup

 

Joe beat a 43 year old Hopkins by a controversial split decsion. Stating "handed him his ass", just shows your nuthuggery..


Hopkins was 43, joe was just off his mid 30s and, and 9 months before had his greatest ever win.

 

well here's a britsh fan....

and since you know how the world of boxing works you'll know why hopkins - calzaghe, or any other profile boosting fight never happened for joe around that time.

by the way - if you want to try to post 'close the thread immediately' i'm telling you that you don't have balls to back up what you want to belíeve...but aren't prepared to back up.

now it's your turn....

 

I really felt that Joe matched Hopkins at his own game ..It was crazy to see Hopkins ***** and moan and put on that act about the low blows considering how Hopkins has been known to be a dirty fighter ..So it may have been a dose of his own medicine ..Once Hopkins couldn't impose his will he kind of punked out ..I never thought for a 2nd that he was gassed but more so flusstered by Joe's aggression ..

 

Joe openly admited that he punched Hopkins in the balls on purpose just to slow the 43 year old down after Joe got knocked on his arse by Hopkins.

 

1stly....
Lets take this from the top - Im a BOXING fan 1st & foremost & my fav boxer is Morales from MEXICO not Britain. Now, to me, Hopkins never came to box & got what he deserved.
2ndly....
Nobody here mentioned anything about knowing how everything in the boxing world works but I do know that Hop v JC was just about a done deal until Hop (suprise suprise) asks for more money just before they signed.
3rdly....
I dont understand the part that follows close thread immediately, it makes no sense to me whatsoever, what is it you want me to back up ?
:huh

Anyway... I respect Hop as a fighter & he did give JC 1 of his toughest fights but the prime version of Hop hadnt refined his defence as much as todays version as he was more attacking & having watched Calzaghe since the mid 90s, I know that he`s at his best when facing opponents who come to fight so I PERSONALLY think Joe beats B-Hop by UD if they fight in their primes.

Also... It doesnt matter who Calzaghe beats, its never going to be enough.... This is what I heard from USAbians --- `He`s scared to fight Lacy because he knows he`ll get KOd`

`Wait til he fights Kessler, you will see how overrated he is against a good fighter in his prime`

`Hopkins will beat Calzaghe by clear UD`

`Joe is scared to fight Pavlik because he knows Pavlik will KO him`



mark my words... if Joe beats Jones then beats Pavlik.... were just gonna go round in circles with this same bull**** only using different names to put a dent in Calzaghe`s legacy because as we all know... CALZAGHE ISNT AMERICAN & it kills you lot that a welshman is the greatest 168 lber of all time & current 1 or 2 p4p at the moment.

END OF DISCUSSION - CLOSE THRED IMMEDIATELY

:thumbsup

 

Yes... it would have also been a 2001-2005 Calzaghe. I think that he has slid more than B-Hop has.

 

So you don't include the win over Lacy as prime Joe. And some how you also exclude the win over Manfredo... how could you judge that this wasn't prime Joe? It was over so quick, Joe dominated and a third round TKO. It was very difficult to gauge how good Joe was, as it was one sided and over almost immediately.

From your absolute prime Joe we have fights: the absolute beatdown of Lacy, UD Bika, and round 3 TKO of Manfredo (no contest)... they take you to the fight against Kessler just 9 months ago. Where is this sudden slide of Joe in those fights. He looked pretty good against Lacy to me.