Calzaghe gave Roy Jones a Boxing Lesson

:good

 

You have a strong case for American based fighters, but a weak case for (mostly continental) European based fighters, as those "p4p" rankings seem to bring the recognition in the eyes of the American public, which is far from being the case in Europe, where no such thing as "p4p" exists. Similar goes to "Hall of Fame".

It's very likely that someone like Klitschko isn't even aware that he's ranked #3 by the Ring magazine, nor he would probably care if he is completely out of those rankings. Povetkin probably isn't aware that those ratings even exist. Similar goes to Golovkin, who even said that the "p4p" thing isn't anything serious if I remember well.

On the other hand, those ratings seem to mean very much to guys like Ward, Mayweather, Pacquiao etc for a simple reason that they are published by an influential American publication which has a history of influence on the American soil. If the Ring Magazine was based in Germany, France or Italy for example, you can bet it would hold no weight to the American based fighters, because at the end of the day, it's main purpose is usually marketing.

 

'the truth' in any sport always exists where the mecca is

if lionel messi went and played his soccer in tonga and scored 100 goals every year, do you think he'd get as much credibility and reputation compared to what he is doing now in europe?

I bet the people on the isle of tonga would revere him though

 

Well, football and boxing are organized in a completely different way.

You can like it or not, but the "p4p" ratings hold little-to-no weight in Europe because of the things I've just explained.

 

they do to fighters who want to test themselves, but then again there's a lot of money to be made staying in Europe but not getting fights against the big players

 

Really? I could swear I heard Enzo Calzaghe tell Joe he was pound for pound #1 in between rounds.. I forgot which fight it was.

 

That statement has absolutely no ground, nor is it logical. I actually wonder how exactly did you came to such conclusion.

Let's take a random example. I assume that Henry Maske probably had no idea of "P4P" existence in the 90s and probably wouldn't have minded if he was on that list or not. When he faced the best rated opponent in Virgil Hill, he clearly done that not only to test himself, but to prove that he is the best, I assume that we both can agree on that.
Now, according to your statement, despite fighting the best opponent he could fight, he still didn't want to test himself as he wasn't influenced by the P4P rankings.

You see, there is no logic to what you've stated.

As for the other part of your statement, I could be ignorant just like you and say that there is a lot of money in the US, so their fighters can fight there and not come here in Europe to face the big players.

 

a fighter doesn't necessarily have to go to the US to fight the best in his division - it depends on the division
but a fighter who does go to the US and gets cozy with the networks will get big fights, which is why fighters like Sergio Martinez were recognized as the true MW champion for so long, and why golovkin now is seen as the heir apparent
the HWs are shifting away, much like the SMW division was ruled by Europeans (and shunned by many in the US until we made our mark. fickle, yes, but it changes the playing field)

its completely logical if you know how the business of boxing works

 

you wont learn a thing being so defensive that you close all doors to learning
debate me if you disagree, but don't flash your insecurities by taking personal jibes just because someone disagrees with you :good

 

Now that's a completely different subject to the matter we were discussing about.

I've said that the "p4p" rankings hold little-to-no weight in Europe, especially the continental part, then you answered with statement that they do for the fighters that want to test themselves. So the argument was about p4p rankings and their influence on the fighters that want to test themselves, not the recognition in American media, notworks and other stuff you've just brought into discussion. Your original statement about p4p rankings and fighters testing themselves wasn't logical and that's what I was responding to.

I agree with this. Of course, it would require the European boxers in some divisions to go to the US and defeat their champions if they want to be the best. It would also require them to go to Germany and defeat Klitschko in order to be the best in HW division for example.

As for the boxers who decide to stay in the US once they become the champions like Martinez did, those things usually happen because of the money which boxer can't earn fighting in his home country. If he could have made more money fighting home in Argentina that he did in the US, he would of likely stayed home. Klitschko is based in Germany instead of Ukraine for similar reasons.

 

but like max schmelling said to vitali klitschko in their documentary :

"if you want to be a real world champion, then you must go to the united states"

and it wasn't until they did that the dynamics changed, even if they didn't have to stay there (which they didn't)

golovkin lives in Germany (if my info is correct), but joining felix sturm's promoter guaranteed his career would be dead weight from that point on, so his decision to go to the US wasn't based at all on making money (which sturm does in spades in Germany, at the expense of his career) - golovkin came to the states to be, and i'll quote max again, "a real world champion"

i'm not trying to wave the flag by saying this, it's simple common sense when it comes to boxing

 

You've made some great points in this thread.

 

Never a more true post written :good

Still no link? If you think the link has nothing to do with the thread, why bring up the comment? Stumped yourself there. Now Echoles is a metaphor when your bluff has been called again. Typical from such an irrelevant poster.

Hows it a troll thread? Stop being silly

 

Fantastic post

Ridiculous bias comment and talking about a completely different sport

Correct and HMB needs to realise that boxing is a worldwide sport that doesnt centre around any one country

Once again ridiculous, bias rubbish.
Consider how Wlad whos considered HW champ by the publication you are defending, fought who was ranked his #1 by the same publication you defend, when he fought Povetkin. It had a massive live crowd and was the champ defending against the #1

Correct again

SMW wasnt shunned by the US. It had world champs at the weight who were followed, its just that they came up short when facing the then European champs at the weight. Now Ward has some wins, their is an interest, which shows that alot is about patriotism rather than sport sadly.
Martinez was recognised as champ because he beat a publication champ, but as you know when you were commenting on Sturm not fighting anyone of note, I pointed that out of Martinez then 7 world title fights, Sturm had fought 4 of them and had an overall greater resume. That seemed to really confuse and upset you for some reason?

How has Stallion showed insecurity? He made valid points. It seems you are the insecure one, who cannot value opinions of others and if it is a fighter who doesnt fight out of America, you make out they are not as important, but fail to understand that not all fighters need America and have success in other countries, in big fights, with big money.
Look at how C John is big in his own country and holds a win over J M Marquez, and that fight didnt happen in America.
Look at how D Haye won WBC WBA WBO CW titles and the WBA HW title, all within 24 fights and often as an away fighter.
Look at how S Cunningham based himself in Germany for big fights and I guess money. That really makes your arguement seem silly

 

by nature of his reply. obviously you didn't read it. you should read replies before you answer.