Calzaghe is the Monzon of this generation

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by youngmonzon, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. youngmonzon

    youngmonzon Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    6
    In many ways Joe Calzaghe is similar to Carlos Monzon.

    1) Joe's "refuse to lose" mentality. Monzon also had an amazing "arrogant confidence" in his ability to win.

    2) Longevity as champion. Joe at 10 years has passed Monzon's 7 year reign.

    3) An uncanny ability to remain cool under fire. Both fighters rarely get ruffled under pressure and quickly rebound from adversity to win.

    3) The lack of credit they both get from American writers and fans. Since Monzon fought just once in the USA in over 100 fights and since Joe has not fought in the USA yet, for some reason most Americans fail to recognize / understand their greatness.

    4) Tremendous conditioning. Monzon never tired over a 15 round fight. Have you ever seen Calzaghe winded? Fitness is an edge both these fighters have / had over most of their opponents.
     
  2. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Messages:
    12,459
    Likes Received:
    20
    Monzon's competition was much better.
     
  3. JAM Killer

    JAM Killer Coming Through. Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Much Much better.
     
  4. youngmonzon

    youngmonzon Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    6
    Agree overall regarding Monzon's competition. However, Calzaghe has faced the best opposition available to him. Not his fault that Briscoe, Valdez and Benvenuti are not fighting today. However, Calzaghe would beat them all. In addition, Kessler is arguably as good as anyone Monzon faced.
     
  5. teke

    teke Titans Time !!! Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    15,472
    Likes Received:
    0
    Competition is what seperates these two, however it is not Joes fault as youngmonzon stated.
     
  6. JAM Killer

    JAM Killer Coming Through. Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kessler is being put on a pedistal again. I don't understand that. The man was outboxed and outclassed by Calzaghe. He didn't even make any adjustments in the fight. Calzaghe was catching straight rights so he started making an effort to avoid the straight right. Kessler did not show that quality.
     
  7. youngmonzon

    youngmonzon Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    6
    Not putting Kessler on a pedestal. He should be given his just due as an excellent fighter. The reason he did not make adjustments is because Calzaghe did not let him make adjustments. Kessler will prove his worth when he returns. He beats everyone at 168 and 175, except Calzaghe. He will learn from the loss to Calzaghe.

    As an aside, a Monzon analogy to the Kessler / Calzaghe match is his first fight with Valdez. Monzon dominated Valdez completely, he did not allow Valdez to make adjustments. Prior to the first Monzon match, Valdez was considered a strong threat to beat Monzon. After Monzon retired, Valdez became champ.
     
  8. sambob

    sambob Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calzaghe has NOT fought the best competition available to him.. In his weight class yeah probably (though what about Ottke?!), but what do other great fighters do when theres no competition available in their weight class? They move up! Or they move down!

    Now I dont blame him for staying there, trying to collect a record number of title defenses, but you can only call him an all time great super middleweight for doing that. If he beat a middleweight ,light heavyweight, or maybe a cruiserweight champion or two, that would put him in the running for just an all time great at ANY weight!
     
  9. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    79,438
    Likes Received:
    2,646
    Kessler couldn't make adjustments because Calzaghe didn't allow him to. Give credit were credit is due. Kessler was 39-0 and a unified champion, having lost only a handful of rounds in his career.
     
  10. youngmonzon

    youngmonzon Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    6
    Monzon is the greatest middleweight ever and did not move up or down. Not sure moving up or down is a qualification for greatness. Hagler? Cerdan? Benny Leonard?

    Anyway, Calzaghe will move up to 175 and beat Hopkins or anyone else at that weight.
     
  11. JAM Killer

    JAM Killer Coming Through. Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    There you go again. You say that you are not putting Kessler on a pedestal, but you continue to call him an excelletn fighter. He is not. No one can prevent you from making adjustments, Kessler just didn't do it, he was stiff and robotic. Calzaghe gave him angles and Kessler looked very confused.

    And he is not the second best fight from 168 to 175. I can name a few people who I would favor over him. Pavlik at 160, Hopkins, Chad Dawson, just to name a few would easily beat Kessler.
     
  12. JAM Killer

    JAM Killer Coming Through. Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not agree that a great fighter can stop another great fighter from making adjustments. I just to not agree. A great fighter makes those adjustments he needs to win the fight. There is a sense of urgency to win. Kessler showed that urgency in the last 2 rounds, but it was too late and it was the same game plan, walk Calzaghe down and deliver a straight right that would end the night. Well Calzaghe made the adjustments to neutralize the right.
     
  13. youngmonzon

    youngmonzon Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    6
    You are putting Dawson on a pedestal. Kessler would beat him. Most likely stop him. Dawson is very overrated because he is American. Kessler will prove his worth in the new year. Emmauel Steward has recently spoken out about how exceptional he felt Kesslers technical abilities are. Not sure why you believe he is stiff and robotic. Calzaghe makes every one look bad. Look at Kesslers other fights. Against Mundine, he had a hurt lower back, yet made adjustments to win.
     
  14. JAM Killer

    JAM Killer Coming Through. Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not agree that Monzon is the best middleweight ever, my vote still goes to Bernard Hopkins.

    You are right, moving up in weight or not moving up in weight does not make you great.

    Calzaghe could very well beat Hopkins, Hopkins did not look that good in his last fight. But I would favor Chad Dawson over Calzaghe.
     
  15. youngmonzon

    youngmonzon Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    6
    I am not sure how you can consider Hopkins to be greater than Monzon. Look at the competition Hopkins faced. Blown up welter weights in Delahoya and Trinidad, and B level fighters like Allen and Echols. Hopkins lost twice to Taylor!!

    In a recent interview even Hopkins admitted he would have lost to Monzon. He stated he would have beaten Hagler, but did not believe he could beat Monzon.