Calzaghe, Jones and Hopkins

my thoughts exactly:good

 

I think Calzaghe was a great fighter, but not as great as Bailey makes him out to be..

For instance.. Put Calzaghe from any point in his career in the ring with the Roy that beat Toney.. I don't think Calzaghe can go 12, mostly due to his style...

I really can't think of a strength that would help Calzaghe.... Work rate wouldn't matter, speed wouldn't matter, power wouldn't matter... Calzaghe had a lot of heart, and kept coming forward, which is a great thing and it worked great for him against certain fighters.... but that would be his demise against that version of Roy... Toney was a defensive wizard with an Iron chin, and was hurt on occasion and was able to use his great defense ability to weather the storm.. I see Joe fighting fire with fire.. and Roy was faster, with more firepower.

Styles make fights, and Roy at his peak was all wrong for Joe..

Bailey just posts **** on who beat who, who beat him, who lost to him, who Joe beat, or videos of shot to **** flat footed Roy, throwing sluggish punches at Joe, saying Roy looked prime.. (hey I guess video proves it)

I have never actually seen him break down the fight, and point out what kind of strengths Joe would have had against the Roy that fought Toney.. Its kind of weird, but it is Joe's biggest strength as to why I think he would get knocked out..:nut

It would have been an amazing fight though, however long it lasted.

 

Fantastic observation of the brave man Joe was. Willing to go and fight where others wouldn't. So why does this justify your double standards about Roy fighting Darius?

 

Hi mate, thanks for the reply!

Regarding Joe's crown Jewels comment, nobody knows do they? It's just speculation. But you'd have to assume he was talking about a good few million. Again, I've no problem with him wanting it, but who was going to pay him millions of pounds to fight Roy? HBO supposedly offered DM $5M to fight Roy, but that was for a unification. I don't know what they'd have been willing to pay Joe, but I wouldn't think it'd have been much, because the U.S. fans had hardly seen him. It's the U.S. PPV and promotion that generates the money.

Joe was strong at 168, but Roy didn't fight there. If he was serious about fighting Roy, he had to move up. He couldn't expect Roy to come down for him. Also as he got older, it became harder and harder for him to make 168. When he got into his 30's he'd have been better at 175. He's quoted as saying that he'd have taken his power and speed up, and he probably would have felt strong at the weight. So there was nothing stopping him.

When I said that Joe was at the bottom of the list, I meant Roy's shortlist at the time, that consisted of Tarver, Joe and Ruiz. They were Roy's options after Woods, at the time of Joe's soccer am appearance. I meant that even if he hadn't have fought Ruiz, he'd have fought Tarver instead of Joe at that time.

How could Joe bring any money to the table, when the U.S. fans had only seen him fight a handful of times? It would have been hard for HBO to sell that as a huge fight. It would have been huge in Britain, but not in America. If Roy had've fought Tarver instead of Joe, no that wouldn't have been Joe's fault, but he would always have found himself in a similar position, unless he'd have made name for himself in America, which he didn't do. If Joe had've gone over and impressed, there would have been a demand to see him fight.

Tarver wasn't as good as Joe, but everybody knew him, and Tarver vs Roy was a huge fight. If the U.S. fans had seen Joe like us Brits and they'd have known just how great he was, they would have loved to have seen him fight Roy no doubt. But again they didn't really know much about him because of his reluctance to fight there. So I have a little sympathy, but not a lot, because he didn't get off his arse and try and promote himself to a larger audience.

It's not that Roy specifically didn't want to fight Joe at that time, it's just that, it wouldn't have been a big fight, and he got better offers. While Joe was supposedly trying to get a fight with Roy in 2002, Murad was trying to get Roy a Ruiz or Tyson fight. Roy not wanting to face Joe at that time, wasn't a duck.

The 175 division was pretty weak around that time, but you'd got Roy, Tarver, Harding, DM, Gonzalez and Woods etc, so I think it was still better than the 168 division at the time.

Joe doesn't call it a duck in as many words, but that's what he likes to imply. He states that he wanted Roy, and Roy wasn't interested. And he wasn't in and around 2002, because Joe wasn't relevant.

You're right, fighters do contradict themselves, but Joe openly admitted that he wasn't chasing Roy. But then a few years later, he told everyone that he'd been chasing him for years. It was an outright lie to protect his pride. He knew he wasn't good enough to beat Roy. You can see that from his crown jewels comment, when he stated that he knew what his capabilities were.

Great debate!

Regards, Loudon.

 

Pre-fight jitters is common with many fighters, and Joe was a hypochondriac. Wasn't there an agreement in place for Joe to fight Hopkins in 2002, that Bernard pulled out of, hardly sounds like Joe was scared to test himself.

To be honest, I don't know what kind of money Joe or Roy wanted, or what was on offer, so it's hard for me to comment either way.

Frank himself said we chased Roy Jones for years.

In 2002, Joe was big enough that Bernard would have got a career high payday facing him, and as G Zod's links proved, the TV networks were all well aware of Joe and wanted to get him over to the USA. Very few fighters are household names and crossover stars.

Why would Roy lie? I'm sure there are far better ways to promote a fight than stating Joe wanted to fight him for years. Roy knows more than me, so I take his word here, I don't see why he'd lie for Joe's sake?

To be fair to him, Roy does have a shot at the CW title now, would be amazing to see him pull it off and win. Regardless of whether he wins it though, he should have retired years ago. As you stated in another thread, I don't think fighting on past his prime diminishes his legacy, it doesn't take away from what he has already achieved.

 

Calzaghe had no right asking for the crown jewels, he was a nobody until he fought Lacy. And then after Lacy he went back to being a nobody until he fought Kessler. And then he finally made it as somebody but then went to sniff coke, that is his career in a nutshell.

Here is what Chris Eubank thought of Calzaghe:-

[url]http://www.thefreelibrary.com/CALZAGHE+'A+FAILURE'.-a0133747554[/url]

Calzaghe was a nobody, and RJJ although did fight many nobodies, didnt need to fight a nobody that can fight.

 

If Calzaghe had ever been a mandatory for Roy at 175, he'd have taken the fight. Roy wanted the 75/25 split that came from mandatory purse bids. Calzaghe is better than a lot of those guys Jones fought, but he never proved it.

 

It's a joke to think that Calzaghe was even on Jones's radar in any serious way.

By the time Calzaghe was around, Jones was already a proven ATG, an HOF lock, a long-time world p4p#1, a multi-weight champion, and had already beaten stars like Toney and Hopkins.

And what was Calzaghe? A WBO champion who fought bums in Wales.

If a global superstar is going to be criticized for not chasing a fight with a WBO champion from Wales (who didn't even fight in his division), then Jones should also be slated for not fighting Sven Ottke, who had EXACTLY the same credentials as Calzaghe at the time.

Ludicrous, ludicrous, ludicrous.

If Calzaghe was a real fighter, he'd have moved to 175, fought in the USA, called Jones out on live TV afterwards, and got his promoter to start making serious offers...

...exactly what a real fighter, Ricky Hatton, did when he wanted to fight the p4p#1 who was fighting in the weight class above him.

The Truth.

 

Nicely said by Popkins here.

 

Fantastic post!

I agree 100% with everything you've said.

Regards, Loudon.

 

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It is disappointing to see my ex sparring partner and spit bucket holder bailey getting his ass handed to him in such a manner, so I decided to do this post to incite and motivate the fallen warrior. To proceed.

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After Zod put down the difficult challenge, everyone knew what time it was:-

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A difficult task at hand, bailey showed courage while on ***** street.

That belated effort had ESB in shock.

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Although bailey made an effort, it was considered not enough:-

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bailey's attempt left him opened for counters.

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After getting owned, bailey supposedly does the disappearing act, but rumours has it he has gone to PC world to get one of these:-

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But rumours still speculate:-

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Some feel bailey has been exterminated:-

Others feel bailey just taking longer to get off his stool:-

Stay tuned, Sunday 5th August around Noon, bailey's post fight interview.

 

Proof that Joe Calzaghe is the GOAT:

Calzaghe is better then Sugar Ray Robinson because:

Robinson was beaten by Joey Archer
...who was beaten by Emile Griffith
...who was beaten by Alan Minter
...who was beaten by Tony Sibson
...who was beaten by Frank Tate
...who was beaten by David Telesco
....who was beaten by Byron Mitchell
...who was beaten by....SUPER JOE!!!

Calzaghe is better then Henry Armstrong because:

Armstrong was beaten by Chester Slider
who was beaten by Sammy Walker
who was beaten by Alfredo Beezer
who was beaten by Jose Edwin
who was beaten by Ossie Marcano
who was beaten by Frankie Olivera
who was beaten by Bobby Cassidy
who was beaten by Ramon Ranquello
who was beaten by Arturo Diaz
who was beaten by Vyacheslav Yakovlev
who was beaten by Lionel Butler
who was beaten by Daiman Wills
who was beaten by Oliver McCall
who was beaten by Cedric Boswell
who was beaten by Jammel McCline
who was beaten by Chris Arreola
who was beaten by Tomasz Adamek
who was beaten by Chad Dawson
who was beaten by Jean Pascal
who was beaten by Carl Froch
who was beaten by Mikkel Kessler

who was beaten by SUPER JOE!!!


Calzaghe is better than Willie Pep because:

Pep lost to Calvin Woodland
who lost to Alfredo Marcano
who lost to Art Hafey
who lost to Danny Lopez
who lost to Jorge Rodriguez
who lost to Johnny De La Rosa
who lost to Roberto Sierra
who lost to Joel Casamayor
who lost to Diego Corrales
who lost to Joshua Clottey
who lost to Carlos Manuel Baldomir
who lost to Verron Forrest
who lost to Sergio Mora
who lost to Brian Vera
who lost to Jaidon Codrington
who lost to Sakio Bika
who lost to.........................SUPER JOE!!

Calzaghe is better than Joe Louis AND Muhammed Ali because:

Joe Louis lost to Ezzard Charles
who lost to Alvin Green
who lost to Kirk Barrow
who lost to Karl Mildenberger
who lost to Henry Cooper
who lost to Muhammad Ali
who lost to Tevor Berbick
who lost to Tony LaRosa
who lost to Billy Zumbrun
who lost to Mike Mollo
who lost to Jammel McCline
who was beaten by Chris Arreola
who was beaten by Tomasz Adamek
who was beaten by Chad Dawson
who was beaten by Jean Pascal
who lost to Bernard Hopkins
who lost to SUPER JOE!

Calzaghe is better than Harry Greb because:

Greb lost to Tiger Flowers
who lost to Leo Lomski
who lost to Lee Ramage
who lost to Bob Pastor
who lost to Jimmy Bivins
who lost to Ezzard Charles
who lost to Alvin Green
who lost to Kirk Barrow
who lost to Karl Mildenberger
who lost to Henry Cooper
who lost to Muhammad Aliwho lost to Tevor Berbick
who lost to Tony LaRosa
who lost to Billy Zumbrun
who lost to Mike Mollo
who lost to Jammel McCline
who was beaten by Chris Arreola
who was beaten by Tomasz Adamek
who was beaten by Chad Dawson
who was beaten by Jean Pascal
who lost to Bernard Hopkins
who lost to SUPER JOE!

Calzaghe is better than Benny Leonard because:

Leonard lost to Jimmy McLarnin
who lost to Tony Canzoneri
who lost to Al 'Bummy' Davis
who lost to Rocky Graziano
who lost to Chuck Davey
who lost to Vince Martinez
who lost to Cecil Shorts
who lost to Fate Davis
who lost to Vernon Mason
who lost to Clyde Washington
who lost to Chuck Mince
who lost to Jamie Thomas
who lost to Paul Whittaker
who lost to Randall Yonker
who lost to Montell Griffin
who lost to Glen Johnson
who lost to Carl Froch
who lost to Mikkel Kessler
who lost to Super Joe

Calzaghe is better than Robert Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Haggler and Tommy Hearns because:
Duran lost to Hearns
who lost to Haggler
who lost to Leonard
who lost to Terry Norris
who lost to Laurent Boudouani
who lost to Felix Trinadad
who lost to Roy Jones Jr
who lost to SUPER JOE

 

Bailey's beat down is worse than Apollo Creed's at he hands of Drago.If only his corner would have thrown in the towl.

 

I think they did already...

No one can think Bailey won this battle, this is the worst beating I have seen him take...

Even in Bailey world, this is recognized as his first official loss.:yep

 

Another short absence and my name has been mentioned several times, yet no counter points or video evidence given anywhere.
Now lets continue with the slaughter