Calzaghe, Jones and Hopkins

Thanks a lot mate, it's been a pleasure debating with you once again, a firm (virtual) handshake it is.

Look forward to the next one

I have to say, for once you've actually made a somewhat interesting and reasonable post. You're still bashing Calzaghe at every given opportunity, but there are some good points in there regarding Calzaghe's popularity with the American audience had he faced Jones and lost years earlier.

By the way, Jones was never a natural MW, he went through hell to make the 160 limit, and was huge for the weight, and out-grew it very quickly. On fight night as a LHW, Roy weighed as much as 188, which suggests that he grew into the LHW division just fine, and was very natural there

 

Herol,

Hi mate!

That's a good assesment, and I'd go along with that, but only if they'd have fought around 2002.

I think Roy at 25/26 at his absolute peak TKO's any version of Joe.

I could definitely see him getting dropped 2 or 3 times, because despite how great Joe was, he was always relatively easy to hit. He often left himself open. But he had a great chin, so I think he'd have taken them and got back up. But I honestly believe that after 2 or 3 knockdowns, the ref would have stepped in, but again, not in 2002.

People say that Roy wouldn't have stopped Joe, because he went 12 rounds with bums, which was true, but in a lot of Roy's 12 round fghts he didn't step on the gas, and he was happy just to coast. I don't think he'd have done that with Joe. Styles make fights, and I think Joe would have gone to Roy, but left himself open.

Herol, if you don't mind me asking, who do you think would have won between Joe vs Tarver?

I think that would have been a great fight.

An interesting clash of styles there, and I think a lot of people forget that styles make fights.

For me, Joe was better than Tarver. But I think someone like Roy would always have more problems with Tarver, than he would with Joe, because of styles.

Great debate.

Regards, Loudon.

 

I'll admit i have only seen the RJJ Tarver fights, because it was during a tmie when we didnt have Sky Sports where I then lived.

I'd pick Joe Calzaghe over him from what I saw, possibly by SD.

I can believe a TKO stoppage of RJJ over Calzaghe is possible, with the right referee. A bad ref might let it run and run till poor Joe's face looked like the elephant man.

 

cheers, sorry if my honesty seems like Calzaghe bashing, I am a fan really of any Brit boxer who isnt crap, you know. I definitely see his behaviour outside the ring as pretty cowardly, but hes a different man in the ring. I think that Jekyll and Hyde distinction is important, it explains why he seemed so topsy turvy in what he said and what he did.

Thanks for the info about RJJ, I missed out on a lot of his career here in Britain. I'd still say RJJ lost a little going to LHW, he seemed less apt at KOs at that weight if I am not mistaken, but being so fast and accurate its hard to notice any depreciation in ability.

 

Ok fair enough, I think you're a little harsh in calling him a coward, Ottke wouldn't face him and the likes of Bernard Hopkins, Steve Collins and Antwun Echols also pulled out of scheduled fights.

It's hard work being a fan over in England! Staying up til 4 am to watch a fight over in the states just isn't possible anymore! He still carried his power into the LHW division, he knocked out Griffin and Hill when they'd never been stopped before. The reason a few of his fights went 12 rounds is because Roy often didn't go for the KO, instead choosing to toy with his opponent.

 

in my honest opinion Calzaghe was slightly overrated! he only went to America to fight Jones and Hopkins when they were past their best! at Super- middleweight Joe took very little risk and in his only rematch fought a guy he had knocked out in a round. Roy at his peak would have stopped Calzaghe in the latter rounds

 

well, other peoples character is independent of his, so thats no proof even if all three of them were cowards. Joe and Bernard aint exactly monozygotic twins.

i see. Yeah I didnt want to subscribe to Sky mainly out of an personal ethics, sky ruined a lot of terrestrial sport and I hate them for it.
Lately though computers allow you to watch almost any sky channel for free illegally so I am happy with them these days lol!

Ealry morning most of these fights are on youtube. Youtube is a good friend.

 

Ok, but if all these fights had gone through at the time, would you call Joe a coward?

Agreed, you used to get plenty of sports and good shows on terrestial TV!

I don't subscribe to these channels anymore, streams, youtube and allthebestfights.com are great, you should check that sight out, it has an enormous catalogue of fights.

 

If Steve Collins hadnt had brain damage on his MRI, if Bernard had been offered more money, if Echols....lol. I dont know who that even is.thats a lot of ifs, but no if Joe had faced them and had dithered less over the big fightshe did land, then i wouldnt class him a coward outside the ring. Outside the ring hes more of a confidence lacker tbh, in a big way, but theres a thin line between that and being yellow.


The biggest 'if' was Otkke, whose inherent cowardice makes Joe look like Braveheart on PCP.

I appreciate those links greatly, thx.
Will fisrt pay back uni postgrad tuition fees, and then start skipping lectures and watching them again.

 

That sounds fair to me. Ottke was a disgrace

:rofl:rofl You're welcome

 

Will be returning to this thread, but have had to be away for a bit

 

Good post, thanks!

 

You still haven't answered my question