Calzaghe, Jones and Hopkins

How on earth is listing a number of facts a strawman argument? He obviously did not care about the Ring rankings which would explain why he fought so few fighters ranked by the Ring. Have you got a direct quote from Calzaghe saying that he had to fight Hopkins because he is the ranked no 1 by the Ring or are you again just making up excuses to defend your boys cherrypicking again?

Boxing: Joe may face yet another foe.

How many southpaws did Calzaghe face during his career? To the best of my knowledge none. He missed every single one of them: Liles, R.Johnson, Tarver, Dawson and Vanderpool. You do not miss every southpaw around during your career, unless you are doing it on purpose

The Last Great Fight page 100

Terrible logic
What proof do you have that he was lying? None.

The fact is that Lacy struggled with fringe contenders before he even faced Calzaghe like Sheika and Vanderpool. Lacy was basically a untested prospect going into the Calzaghe fight he barely had more than 20 pro fights. After Calzaghe he would face opponents on the same level as Sheika like Manfredo and struggle with them also.

Stop debating like a child

I said that the only reason you keep trying to put down Jones's win over Toney is so you can put down Jones's resume. Whether you like it or not that win is better than any win in Calzaghe's resume, which doesn't really mean much seeing as how his best wins are over a 43 year old man and a untested Kessler, who lost to a novice.

 

You have no idea what you are talking about

There was much more interest for a Calzaghe-Reid II fight than for their first fight because of the controversy over the decison. Hence there was more money on the table. Reid demanded a rematch shortly after the fight but he didn't want to get ripped off, which would of happened if he had accepted that offer.

Lets take a look at the money that fight would of generated

The money ****** would have before the fight

SKY Tv
American Network
-International TV rights
Advertising money

The money ****** would have after the fight

Gate reciepts
Merchandising
dvd sales
reruns

If ****** was offering him a fair deal then he would of offered him a percentage, not a flat fee, because a large percentage of the money generated would not have been known until weeks after the fight. ****** was trying to rip him off. You have absolutely no idea about the business side of boxing

Reid really had no choice but to accept that offer from Ottke because his career was in limbo at that point.

Special Report

Calzaghe's father ousted as trainer

 

Toney won the Thadzi fight and got robbed. You would know that if you bothered to actually watch the fight

There is something clearly wrong with you, which is why you have been unable to read my post. Interesting how all the other posters understood what I stated

for example:

Here we go again. You cant argue your way out of this so you try to turn it into a Jones-Daruiuz debate

Frank ****** Responds, Tells All on Joe Calzaghe

Universum wins Calzaghe purse bid

****** did not want to promote that fight and SkY and ITV did not want it either. Calzaghe was lucky that Veits promoters wanted that fight otherwise he would of got nothing. 1.7 m for a Calzaghe fight? They must of lost at least a million. It should also be pointed out that SKy and ITV would eventually refuse to show all of Calzaghe's fights altogether.

The fact that this happened 2 years after Daruisz lost his belt is irrelevant.
Dariusz never got any gift decisions so your gift decision argument is nonsense.
Calzaghe knew the fight was there to get made and looked the other way, which is no surprise as he said himself he didn't want any tough fights and I think I can safely say that would of been a tough fight.
Better to stay at smw and fight Tocker Pudwell instead.

 

Lets think about this

In that Froch -Calzaghe thread you insistd that fighters were not the same after they moved up (except Pavlik and Winky for obvious reasons). One of the bad examples you used of course was Hatton, who you claimed was not the same fighter at ww that he was at lww. I pointed out to you that the reason he struggled with guys like Mayweather and Collazo was because he was facing a better level of opponent, while you insisted it was because he had put on 7 lbs.

I stated that Hatton was never a world class fighter, he barely got past contender level Magee who he refused to give a rematch to. Hatton was always a limited brawler if he had tried to box with Kosta he most likely would of got koed because:

1: He can't box
2: He has no defense

It's the reason he turned what should of been a boxing match into a phonebox mauling session. with him either constantly holding onto Kosta's right arm or keeping Kosta pinned against the ropes. Kosta couldn't get any leverage on his punches. During his fight with Maywather he was forced to fight in the middle of the ring from round 7 onwards, because he was too tired to keep Mayweather against the ropes and look what happened. A similiar thing happened with Pacquaio, Kenny Bayliss told him to stop the holding and look what happened there.

Ward was outboxing Kessler using:

Lateral movement
combination punching
Controlling the range
Half steps to offset Kessler's timing.

Take away the headbutts, and I dont even think they were all intentional, and Kessler still loses every single round.

Before you moaned about misquoting you yet look at the way you only quoted part of my post convenitately leaving out the part about Hattons constant holding

Leaving out the sentences you don't like. Pathetic

Hatton was never that good:

-He never fought a fighter ranked with the ring top ten during the first 5 years of his career
-After beating kosta he missed all the best lww's around like Cotto, Witter, Bradley and Holt prefering to pad his record out agains binmen like Mausa and Urango
-He was lucky to get wins over average fighters like Collazo and Magee
-He needed hometown refereeing to save him against the mediocre Laconzo

But apart from all of this he was a world class fighter, becaue he beat a semi-acive Kosta that had only fought 9 rounds during the previous three years?


It was only recently that I realised that that post of mine you quoted was from 2010. I Have made over 2000 posts since then. It must of taken you hours to go thorugh my post history and in the end you found nothing. so you decided to just misquote one of my old posts. You have got issues and im done debating with you

He would of been Dariusz's mandatory if he moved up at the time of this article and he looked the other way instead

 

Part I
A promoters profit is defined by the following formula:
Promoters Profit= Money generated from fight - Overheads

The biggest overhead a promoter has to pay is a fighters wage, so it's in his best interests to pay the fighter as little as possible to maximise his profits.

This is where a fighters manager comes in. It is his job to keep an eye on the promoter and make sure his fighter gets the best deal possible. In otherwords the promoter wants to maximise his profits and a manager wants to minimise it. This is the reason why you should take anything a promoter says relating to money with a pinch of salt.

Part II
No American network picked up the rights to Calzaghe-Reid I, but HBO were interested in picking up Calzaghe's fights for the latter half of 99

Boxing: Roughed up by Reid - but Calzaghe escapes.
Dibella wanted to pick up some fights so he could generate interest for a future Calzaghe-Jones fight. They would of most likely been willing to pick up Calzaghe-Reid II, which was a very competitive fight on paper, unlike Calzaghe-Thornberry which they wouldnt touch. This means that there would of been at least an extra 0.5m more on the table than before. The idea that it would of been fair for Reid to only be getting 15k of that is nonsense.

No decent boxing manager would of advised his fighter to accept such an offer, which then begs the question who was Reid's manager? Who was in his corner arguing with ****** on Reid's behalf?

Reid takes a shot at ******; BOXING.
So right there you have a serious clash of interests. In America it is illegal for a promoter to also work as a fighters manager, because it is a conflict of interests. For some strange reason it is legal over here and I'm sure guys like ****** have exploited that loophole to the fullest. Guess who Calzaghe's manager was?

You claim the offer is fair without providing any evidence that it is fair and then you place the burden of proof on me? The reason why so many proposed Calzaghe fights fell through is because the fighters were put off by ******'s offers:

Mundine:

Mundine spurns Calzaghe

Beyer:

German Beyer eyes Calzaghe bout

Jones(06)

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/weblog/news.php?p=11083&more=1

Kessler(06)

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/weblog/news.php?p=11083&more=1

 

So I will ask the question again. Do you have a direct quote from Calzaghe stating this?

According to who? He made more money fighting washed up Jones, than he did Hopkins. Fights on HBO are worth whatever HBo decide they are worth. How do you know a fight with Dawson would of netted Calzaghe less money?

In other words it's ok to duck styles you don't like as long as they are not your mandatories.
If Calzaghe held on to the WBO and IBF belts then Bute would of become his mandatory at some point. Calzaghe most likely would of then vacated his belts and moved up

Boxing: Joe may face yet another foe.

Boxing: Ice one for Calzaghe.

Calzaghe would pull out of the Vanderpool fight, claiming to be injured, back in 99 and refuse to give him another fight. Vanderpool would call him out for the next 3+ years

Liles(WBA)
Beyer(WBC)
Bute(IBF)
[Calzaghe was never the undisputed smw champion either, he would of needed to unify with Bute in order to do that. Calzaghe basically waited for the belts to fall into the hands of orthodox fighters.]
Dawson(WBC)
[The fight was put on the table at least 4 times and Calzaghe would look the other way every time. Are we really supposed to believe a fight over shot Jones was better than a fight with Dawson?]
Tarver(IBF)
Vanderpool

It is was it is

 

And here we go again. You rate guys like Ottke and Eubank who got gifts left, right and center. You never talk about that, but you can't stop talking about Toney's gift win over Tiberi. He is still the same fighter who got wins over Nunn, McCallum, R.Johnson.He should of got the win in the first McCallum fight also. You do not beat those guys if you are not very good.
He got robbed in the Thadzi fight
I thought he lost Griffin I, but he should of got the nod for Griffin II

which is why you were constantly trying to put it down in that Calzaghe-Froch thread?

Bad decisions happen in boxing. Look what happened with Bradlay-Pacquiao or Pacquaio-Jmm 3

My scorecard

Round Toney Thadzi
1 10 9
2 10 9
3 10 9
4 10 10
5 10 9
6 9 10
7 10 10
8 10 9
9 9 10
10 10 9
11 9 10
12 9 10

Total 116-114 Toney

Thadzi was the aggressor, but his agression was ineffective. most of his punches were missing, while Toney landed the cleaner blows. The Judges gave Thadzi rounds based on ineffective aggression.
If you want to argue that Thadzi won the fight then post up your scorecard.

So what? The HBO team thought that Pacquaio won his last fight with Jmm. A fight I had him losing by 8-4 rounds.

The commentators scored the first 2 rounds to Toney and everything from round 3 onwards to Thadzi, which really says it all. Roach never said Toney lost the fight either he said he needed to win the last two rounds because the fight was close

I doubt very much if you have ever seen any Toney fights. You clearly have a bias against American fighters, except those that have lost to European fighters you like.

Your breakdown of Toney-Jones was terrible.