Calzaghe Only Faced Bums In His WBO Title Reign? THE PROPER BREAKDOWN.

I tell you how that reads and that is Calzaghe could have been very near the top of a list of greatest ever boxers of all time {instead of just being on it}, if he had changed five average boxers for five stars in his resume and won the fights {which would have been very likely, Calzaghe had tremendous work rate and an excellent chin, until his last two fights he had only been down twice and was never ever seemingly in trouble, making him very difficult to beat}.

Hopkins on the other hand is more of a known, he is average against the best which is proven {lost against Jones, Taylor and Calzaghe} and Hopkins had years as a middleweight champion but did not have a great win at the weight, which is also proven .

If Calzaghe and Hopkins are viewed more or less on a par by yourself, then Calzaghe has a big upside, he could be much better than where you pitch him in your mind as there is no known ceiling for Calzaghe like there is for Hopkins {eg put him in with a near prime Jones, or a Taylor or a Calzaghe and Bhops comes up short}, Calzaghe never lost, he never really came close to losing, not by knockdown or by points, he only had two split decisions in his career both away from home and both won with ease on two of the judges scorecards 116-111 x 2 in the Reid fight and 115-112 ,116-111 in the Hopkins fight. Calzaghe only fought the same boxer on one occasion, which is another plus as it means he fought and beat 45 different opponents, and lastly he was ducked, he was good and people in the game knew he was good so he was ducked, people try and accuse Calzaghe of doing the ducking but it was always or nearly always was the other way around.
He offered to fight Ottke in Germany for $1 plus his expenses, Bhops pulled out of a fight between the two the next day in 2002 and Calzaghe was always calling out Roy Jones after fights, Steve Collins retired rather than face Calzaghe, so there was some fights out there that did not happen and it was not usually Calzaghe's fault.

PS Dont forget the Hopkins that fought Calzaghe at home was 95% prime coming off wins against Tarver and Wright and then going on to beat Pavlik, Calzaghe although younger than Hopkins was very close to retirement and had shot hands.
Have you been converted into being a Calzaghe fan yet ?

 

No. That should read, if you were to replace 5 of those below average guys with 5 top world class, he and his fans would have some claim to him being considered an atg. With that resume, he is not. I don't believe he would have been undefeated had he done so. The whole house of cards comes tumbling down then.

Some guys like to think that because JC doesnt have a loss on his record that it's indicative of his being unbeatable.

To me, it underscores the idea that he went to extremes to protect the 0. Fighting weak opposition in an already weak division. Fighting exclusively to defend the wbo belt of all things. Hardly leaving the UK. And he did this for nearly a decade......in the prime of his career. He did fight some ok guys, but hardly ever when they were at their peak.

Simply put, the man took at least some risks. He unified. He took on the top challengers to his titles.His level of comp was much better, he moved up in weight at age 40. I would also like to say if he had taken a similar road as Calzaghe, retiring at 36 or 37, he would not have lost to Taylor, nor Calzaghe. He also would not have had wins against Tarver and Pavlik, etc....... Point is, his status has grown despite the losses. His standing has increased because he added another dimension to his resume. If he had retired before fighting Taylor, there would be people having debates about the legitimacy of his legacy.

Honestly, what risks did Calzaghe take? Or are we supposed to believe that he was so, so great that the guys he fought were indeed top quality, but that he himself was just that much better. What is the more likely scenario to you?

And if hopkins is so average, without much of a mw resume, why is he so important to Calzaghe's legacy? I think you know the answer.

He was 43, and years removed from his prime fighting days at mw. He used his ring savvy and dubious tactics to stay and remain competitive at such a late stage. I give him credit for it. But only Calzaghe fans can or will argue that a 43 year old former mw fighting at lhw was close to his prime.

The thing about Calzaghe is that I do think he was a terrific fighter, with decent physical skills and an odd style that he used to beat his early opponents down, and to overwhelm them later in his career. I think he was adaptable, relentless and also able to force fighters to fight his fight despite being flawed technically without great defense. I think he is definitely a HOFer, but as an ATG he wouldn't break the top 100.

To me, there are lots of reasons why fights don't get made. Generally, I could not care less why they don't. In the end, guys fought who they fought. But somehow I doubt your assertion that Calzaghe was blameless. Fear of flying, injuries, lack of confidence, a divorce gone wild, all have been offered up as JC's personal reasons for not fighting at different times.

He said he didn't want any part of Jones. There are quotes that have been thrown out there. Ottke, who cares. Collins I have no idea about. Hopkins ditched the fight they had apparently agreed upon.

I could not tell you why he didn't get the smaller, but still legacy-impacting quality fights. But I can tell you, the reason that I think he didn't get the bigger fights. The first reason was that he was obscure and had little to offer than the wbo belt. The second, it certainly seems that he did not want to leave home. Home=UK. Did you ever notice that the list of people who were referees or judges in Calzaghe's fights before Lacy is a relatively short one? Have you ever noticed that certain names pop up over and over as either a ref or judge? Now I am NOT saying there were any fixes, but I can imagine other fighters have noted the embarrassing and questionable early stoppages that have occurred in JC's backyard. Some were downright ludicrous. Why would any fighter with a choice or any bargaining power want to go fight there? He was not ducked.

Hopkins was not 95% prime.(where the hell did you get that figure anyway?) He was however, very astute at selecting opponents. He knew who he could beat and how. It backfired with Calzaghe, who I thought won that fight.

His hand problems are well documented, but aside from that there was no way being that much younger, fighting the level of competition he did, that he was as ring worn as Hopkins. He retired for the same reasons he took the path he did.....to protect the "0".

No, I have not been converted back into a Calzaghe fan. If I can resist the temptations of Bailey(no homo), I can resist you.
Believe it or not, I rooted for Joe for a while. Specifically Kessler and Hopkins. I am also part Welsh.
I was surprised and disappointed that he chose to retire rather than fight on. But, in hindsight, based on his prior decisions, I should not have been surprised.

 

Beating bottom of the table teams or midd table teams should be a given for a top team, its when Calzaghe and Hopkins faced the best that tests them and Calzaghe beat his 'top' opponents Hopkins, Kessler and Lacy whereas Hopkins lost to his Calzaghe, Taylor and Jones.

The reason Calzaghe has no loss on his record is because he is so hard to beat, look at the amateurs 118 wins and only 2 losses.

Calzaghe fought everybody that was prepared to fight him, there literally was nobody else.

Hopkins has a poor resume for a possible ATG, at his weight of middleweight, he spend years as a middleweight champion yet you cant name his best win because there are no good wins.
Its easy to pick apart a boxers record but once I said lets look at Hopkins record you said 'Hopkins resume is no great shakes' and you spoke about Hopkins best wins were against smaller guys.

When was Hopkins prime ?, you tell me, how prime was the Hopkins that beat Tarver, Wright and Pavlik ?, its obvious that he was close to his best. If you look at Hopkins on his 25th birthday he had only had one fight and lost it, if you look at Hopkins up until his 35th birthday he had won the IBF version of the middleweight title several times but not beat any 'top level' boxers, yet again if I asked you to name Hopkins best win by age 35 you would struggle ?, because the boxers he was facing were poor when considering that Hopkins is a possible ATG. Between 35 and 40 Hopkins beat career lightweight/welterweight DLH and then Trinidad a career welterweight, Hopkins at 40 lost twice to Taylor {both very close on pts}, Hopkins beat Tarver at 41, Hopkins beat Wright at 42, Hopkins lost to Calzaghe at 43 and later on the same year at 43 year old Hopkins beat Pavlik, and for the record at 44 he beat Ornelas, at 45 he beat Roy Jones and drew with Pascal.
Calzaghe won a World title at 25 years of age after being a champion amateur boxer, Roy Jones won a World title at 24 years of age {against Hopkins incidently} after being a champion amateur boxer. Hopkins did not win his first World title till he was 30 years old, was Hopkins an amateur champion ?, Hopkins started later than most boxers, that is one reason why he is going strong at his age, Calzaghe was closer to retirement and more shop worn at 36 than Hopkins was at 43 when they fought, Hopkins is anywhere between 5 years and 10 years fresher than his age in boxing terms because he was a late starter, the inclination is to say Hopkins best years were between 35 and 40 but he only beat welterweights and Joppy at that stage, between 40 and 45 Hopkins had learned ring craft and started mixing it Taylor twice, Tarver, Wright, Calzaghe and Pacal, gaining 2 wins a draw and 3 losses in that company, so Hopkins was very close to prime when he fought Joe Calzaghe.

Are you American des3995 ?, because most Americans had not seen Calzaghe till the end of his career ?

 

History lesson, there was never ever any controversy surrounding Calzaghe's fights every single won of them was won fair and square, Calzaghe only had 18 fights in Wales out of a total of 46, some fights were against Englishmen in England, Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Starie and Delaney.
As regards the refs stopping any Calzaghe fights early it is a mute point because in nearly all of the instances the opposition boxer had been knocked down either in the round of the stoppage or in previous rounds, also Calzaghe would have won every round prior to the stoppage in nearly ever case.
It is one of the impressive things about Calzaghe's record in my humble opinion and that is there was no controversy or dispute in Calzaghe winning every single fight, which is not the case with lots of high level boxers like Ali for instance {Henry Cooper and slitting the glove, Ken Norton etc}.
Calzaghe only had two split decisions both away from home and both won by Calzaghe by large scores two of the judges scorecards, 116-111 x2 in one fight and 115-112 ,116-111 in the other fight, Calzaghe outlanding his opponents.

The one fight that boxing did miss out on was Calzaghe versus Roy Jones Jnr back in the day, that would have been something special .

 

DINAMITA

You're right

Problem is people have a real problem with Calzaghe, not because of who he fought, not because of his style and not because they think he lost to Hopkins

The reason why you're getting such negative feedback is...

SOME FANS HATE THE FACT THAT HE RETIRED UNDEFEATED

Thats why

Secretly they appreciate his skills, talents and work ethic. Everyone should have read your post and said "great job" as everything you said has been true

But your receiving negative feedback because Joe will forever have a 0 in the losses column, and some fans detest that.

It will be the same when Floyd retires for good, everyone will say "He never fought Pacquiao" so he's scared, overprotected etc etc

 

Calzaghe v RJJ back in the day wouldnt have been special

Yes, it would have been an amazing fight to watch, but no-one in America even knew who Joe was until the Lacy fight so it wouldnt have sold well

 

Wont have sold well in the States but in the UK it would have, you are correct it ''would have been an amazing fight to watch''.

 

Anyone who's that dedicated to critisising a boxer is a homo.

 

This is their comparison only at MW and SMW:-

- You can go and check my thread on Hopkins. Calzaghes and Ottkes reign comparison. Hopkins is just slightly better but Hopkins beat his opposition more impressivingly than Calzaghe did.

- Hopkins beat more former, future and reigning champions.

- Hopkins top 10 wins overall > Calzaghe's top 10 wins

- Hopkins beat his opponents by KO's and wide UD's, Calzaghe has only 3/10 KO wins in his top 10 wins and SD win vs Robin Reid.

- Hopkins faced more top 10 ranked MW than Calzaghe did with SMW.

Hopkins dominated the MW scene far better than Calzaghe did.

During Hopkin's reign he beat the best available, Calzaghe didnt step in the ring with Ottke, Beyer, Siaca, Mundine, Bute, Froch.......

Who can you accuse Hopkins of ducking in the MW scene during his reign?

 

Kessler started his career at LMW and as he grew older he moved up in weight.

Trinidad was 19 when he was fighting at WW, and fought Hopkins at MW when he was 29.

Trinidad weighed in at 158.5, while Hopkins weighed in at 157.

Trinidad wasnt a natural WW when Hopkins beat him and was holding a title.

Trinidad's resume > Jeff Lacy's career.

Matter of fact Trinidad's resume at MW > Lacy's at SMW even though Trinidad only had 4 fights at that weight.

Hoya however wasnt a natural MW, thats why he got KO'd silly.

Who should have Hopkins fought?

Amongst the names early on in his reign is Quincy Taylor, but he got beat by Holmes quickly enought.

Then Felix Sturm, but he got beat by Hoya. Which names can you produce.

With regards to Calzaghe, he didnt fight Frankie Liles, Sven Ottke, Manny Siaca, Markus Beyer, Lucian Bute and then ran away from WBC mandatory Carl Froch.

Hopkins dominated the MW scene more harder than Calzaghe did.

Kessler and Lacy aint top "teams", who has Kessler and Lacy beat?

Hopkins went up in weight and dominated Tarver, Calzaghe in his own weight had difficulties vs kessler.

And Lacy is was and probably always will be ****.

Watch the Taylor fights, the first fight was a clear robbery, the 2nd fight was understandable.

Head to Head Calzaghe got a SD vs a old Hopkins who he refused to rematch.

Hopkins is still in the LHW scene, from where Calzaghe ran away from to protect his 0. That shows their levels.

 

Most of those Calzaghe ones are ridicolous, Froch was only British standard when Calzaghe was reaching the end and looking for big fights, same for Bute, Ottke did not want to know and never fought outside Germany, Mundine, Siaca and Beyer were nothing more than mid division fodder.

Hopkins failed to fight Gerald McClellan, Castro, Quincy Taylor, Julian Jackson, Harry Simon, Sturm, Cherifi and Calzaghe in 2002.

Against who was Hopkins best middleweight win ?
Against who was Hopkins best ever win ?
Is Hopkins an ATG ? {if so top 100 or top 50}
When was Hopkins prime ? {is there much difference prime wise for Hopkins between 25 and 45 ?}

 

I dont really give a ****, and was responding to some of the stuff trampie said.

You name me which MW's Hopkins should have fought?

Their reigns, Calzaghe's and Hopkins, is similar. But Hopkins faced more top 10 ranked opposition, faced more future former and reigning champions. Knocked out more of top 10 wins than Calzaghe. And faced everyone available something which cannot be said for Calzaghe who didnt face the #1 ranked SMW Sven Ottke.

 

Nothing annoying here. You said Hopkin's MW resume is ****, I asked you name me who he should have fought?

The 2 best fighters at SMW were Ottke and Kessler. Calzaghe fought Kessler and didnt fight Ottke, Beyer, Froch, Bute, Siaca.....

Hopkins was the best LHW at the time, but RJJ wasnt and he was clearly shot.

He got a SD win over Hopkins and refused to rematch him in his hometown Cardiff as a farewell fight.

Hopkins beat the best LHW Tarver, fought again the best LHW Pascal and IMO won that, and now is giving him a rematch. Calzaghe's reign at LHW is a joke.

 

I agree with you SILENCER, 'the shoe pinches a little on the other foot' :yep