Calzaghe Only Faced Bums In His WBO Title Reign? THE PROPER BREAKDOWN.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Sep 24, 2008.


  1. BritInvasion

    BritInvasion keepin on keepin on Full Member

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    WILL McINTYRE, 2001
    - Who? I am unsure myself, so although I remember the fight (vaguely), I checked the guy out. What did he do to merit a crack at the title? Well, since losing to Dana Rosenblatt in 2000, McIntyre's 5 opponents before facing Calzaghe were:
    TONY POPE, record 14-6, had lost his last 3 in a row
    ROBERT DOYLE, record 6-10-1, lost his previous fight
    ANTHONY ATKINSON, record 17-9-2, had lost 2 of his last 3
    CHARLES DAUGHTRY, record 9-25-2, 3 losses 1 draw from last 4
    JESSIE MARSH, 9-3-1
    Nothing else to say about this guy.
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    CHARLES BREWER, 2002
    - Brewer was 33 when he faced Calzaghe, record 37-8, had lost 2 of his last 4, including a 3rd round stoppage defeat to Antwun Echols oneyear previous. Brewer had won the vacant IBF title 5 years earlier, beating Gary Ballard, and lost it a year later to Sven Ottke. Brewer never won a world title fight again, and retired with a career record of 40-11.
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    MIGUEL ANGEL JIMINEZ, 2002
    - Who? I am unsure myself, so although I remember the fight (vaguely), I checked the guy out. What did he do to merit a crack at the title? Well, since losing to Max Hayman in 2000, Jiminez's next 7 fights before challenging Joe were:
    VINCENT MOSES, record 3-15-2, had lost his last 4 in a row
    HUGO LOMELI, record 0-3-1, no wins in 4 pro contests
    EDUARDO GUTIERREZ, record 30-9-2, had lost 3 of last 4
    ARMANDO CAMPAS, record 4-24-4, had lost last 3 in a row
    SEGUNDO MERCADO, record 19-7-2, had lost 4 and drawn 1 of last 5
    JESUS MAYORGA, record 24-24-2, had lost last 6 in a row at least
    JEREMY MORRISON, record 11-2, had lost previous fight
    Nothing else to say about this guy.
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    TOCKER PUDWILL, 2002
    - Who? I am unsure myself, so although I remember the fight (vaguely), I checked the guy out. What did he do to merit a crack at the title? Well, here are his last 4 fights before he challenged Joe:
    KWAN MANASSAH, record 6-16-2, had lost his last 6 in a row at least
    LARRY KENNEY, record 9-32-2, had lost his last 6 in a row at least
    DONNIE PENELTON, record 13-139(yes 139!)-4, had lost last 6 at least
    ENRICO RAMIREZ, record 5-12-1, had lost last 5 in a row
    Nothing else to say about this guy.
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    BYRON MITCHELL, 2003
    - Former WBA supermiddleweight champion. Retired with 25-4-1 record. Has a weak resume (beat Frankie Liles, but lost to Bruno Girard and Sven Ottke before facing Joe, and was stopped by Richard Hall immediately after the Calzaghe fight then retired).
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    MGER MKRTCHIAN, 2004
    - Who? I am unsure myself, so although I remember the fight (vaguely), I checked the guy out. What did he do to merit a crack at the title? Well, here are his last 4 fights before challenging Joe:
    JOZSEF BALZACS, record 2-3-1, had lost 3 and drawn 1 of last 4
    FREEMAN BARR, record 25-2, had won his last 6
    SERGEY GERASIMOVICH, record 2-3-0, had lost 3 of his last 4
    VAGE KOCHARYAN, record 6-5-1, had lost 5 of his last 6
    Nothing else to say about this guy.
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  2. BritInvasion

    BritInvasion keepin on keepin on Full Member

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    MARIO VEIT, 2005
    - Had a 45-1 record by the time he fought Joe again. In the 2 years leading up to Joe, Veit had beaten a mix of decent pros (Charles Brewer and Kabary Salem) and obscure losers (Lolenga Mock 22-8-1, had lost 4 of his last 5, and Eliseo Nogueira 13-36-3 had lost 6 in a row minimum). Never held any version of the world title.
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    EVANS ASHIRA, 2005
    - A career middleweight who stepped up to supermiddle when offered a shot at Calzaghe's title. Stopped in 2 rounds by Maselino Masoe at middleweight a year prior to facing Joe. Has been fighting at lightmiddleweight for the past year. Has never won any version of the world title.
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    JEFF LACY, 2006
    - 21 wins and zero losses, IBF supermiddleweight champion, last 3 fights before Joe were wins over Rubin Williams, Robin Reid and Scott Pemberton, 3 fights since have been wins over Vitali Tsypko, Peter Manfredo and Epifanio Mendoza.
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    SAKIO BIKA, 2006
    - Bika had lost to Sam Soliman (15-7) before he fought Calzaghe and hadn't beaten anyone of note. Although he was also beaten by Lucian Bute after Calzaghe, has posted a couple of decent wins against his old conqueror Soliman (34-9) and Jaidon Codrington. Hasn't won a world title.
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    PETER MANFREDO JR, 2007
    - Had 3 losses to his TV show chums former WBC lightmiddleweight champion Sergio Mora (twice) and Alfonso Gomez (once), who recently challenged Miguel Cotto for the WBA welterweight title. Hasn't won a world title.
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    MIKKEL KESSLER, 2007
    - 39 fights, 39 wins, WBC and WBA supermiddleweight champion. Had wins on the resume against Mundine, Lucas, Andrade and Beyer. Since Calzaghe, beat Dimitri Sartison by 12th round KO and has a fight coming up against Danilo Haussler.
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  3. Axe

    Axe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good analysis of Calzaghe's relatively weak resume.
     
  4. Fab2333

    Fab2333 Needs to Get It 2Gether Full Member

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    PACFAN you outdid yaself with this one.:good
    On that note I have no comment:hey
     
  5. sthomas

    sthomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Calz. has an impressive resume. It's hard to keep your focus when you face a lot of not so great fighters, yet he's remained undefeated. Look @ #1 ranked Manny Pac., he's lost 2 fights by KO against guys who are not exactly household names.
     
  6. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    That's a quality breakdown, BritInvasion. :thumbsup
     
  7. bizzer07

    bizzer07 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    top notch sir
     
  8. bizzer07

    bizzer07 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Dec 11, 2007
    good stuff
     
  9. JonOli

    JonOli Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When Eubank met Joe he wasn't totally shot - and had something in the tank, but he was far removed from his best. He was also weight drained. All his defeats (five) came in his last nine fights, one of those to Joe; that indicates his state and level of decline at the time. He was also inactive for two years at the weight, and his only fights during that time were two matches against absolutely diabolical opponents (check them out, they really are truly terrible - more sort of exhibition fights) in the middle east, and at Light Heavy. That depleted version of Eubank gave what Joe says is his hardest fight ever. I understand that Joe was a lot greener then, but he'd still had over 20 pro fights; he'd had as many fights as David Haye has had now in fact.

    Eubank wasn't even considered worthy of a top ten super-middle rating by Ring magazine at the time he fought Joe. In fact he hadn't been thought of by Ring as a top ten SM boxer for 3 years prior to facing Joe. Eubank in his prime rode high in the list for years, sitting only behind the likes of Toney, and RJJ. They simply believed that he had deteriorated to such a degree that they no longer thought him good enough to warrant an inclusion.

    When you consider the limited names that made the Ring magazine ten at the time Eubank fought Joe - the likes of Henry Wharton, Joseph Kiwanuka, Vincenzo Nardiello; it really highlights how far removed from his best Ring magazine believed Eubank to be. Even Jones at this moment in time, who is absolutely shot to pieces, makes todays LH top ten.

    As far as the fights with Thompson goes - sure he put up a wiling fight against Thompson but it was at Cruiser weight. Eubank could no longer make Super Middle that is obvious. Eubank lost both fights to former Light heavy Thompson. Thompson then went on to lose the title he won by beating Eubank in his next fight, and went on to never hold a genuine title at the weight again.

    Also don't forget that it was Collins title they were fighting for - Eubank had no title, he was simply a last minute semi retired stand in - weight draining. A fight that would not have been sanctioned by some boxing bodies. Collins was the genuine champion.

    Anyway, it was a decent start to winning a title - something to push on from to greater things - nothing more; certainly not a ATG legacy defining fight.
     
  10. TFFP

    TFFP Guest

    PACFAN strikes AGAIN! :lol:

    PACFAN, or CALFAN? You talk about him so much I swear you are having an affair with him.

    You rate Calzaghe and his achievements very highly, but it grates you. Otherwise you wouldn't feel the need.
     
  11. JonOli

    JonOli Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You have Lacy, Reid (which was a close fight a few think Joe lost), Kessler, Eubank, and Popkins.

    You could give Byron Mitchell a mention I supose... who knocked Calzaghe down
     
  12. JonOli

    JonOli Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think it is him being talked about as an ATG off the back of that resume - that is the thing that really grates people.
     
  13. HOF

    HOF Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And is funded by Calzaghe Bashing Closet Gayboy Admirer Productions
     
  14. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Good response. I think you are a bit kind to some of these guys, I don't think you would have described them in such terms had Calzaghe not fought them, but good response nonetheless. However, I think if on objective fans read both of our comments on each fighter they will still emerge with the same impression as if they had only read mine: The excellent win was excellent (Kessler), the very good win was very good (Lacy), the good win was good (Mitchell), and the decent wins were decent (Woodhall, Reid). How many of his WBO fights were real 50/50 risks that Joe wasn't favourite to win? I'd say only 2 out of all of them- Lacy and Kessler. How many were against pound-for-pound top 10 ranked opponents? None. How many were against guys from reality TV shows? Two.

    I definitely think it was worthwhile to point out the fights some of his challengers had immediately prior to facing him. Surely even for Calzaghe fans that was pretty shocking?? Too many of them should never have got anywhere near challenging for a world title. And even if Joe was forced into a couple of them, surely that should've made him determined to take on better fighters in his voluntary defences. But the general standard over the 9 years from Eubank in 1997 to Lacy in 2006 was pretty appalling. That's my only point.

    No hate, just looking critically at a very highly rated fighter's resume. And that is the subject of this thread, not me. Comments on me just make it look like people are avoiding the subject for their own agendas.

    I can't be bothered getting into long-running arguments with people who will never accept any criticism of Calzaghe's resume, so I will try to avoid returning to this thread. Everything in my breakdown of his resume is true. That is all.
     
  15. ThePlugInBabies

    ThePlugInBabies ♪ ♫ Full Member

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    :good

    never fear. we're not all bat**** insane, wind up merchants like TFFP or just general comic genius' like C_H_J. the main bulk of joe's career is pretty awful with some decent ex champs thrown in.

    i think in the past few years he has redeemed himself and pretty much sealed his legacy with the lacy, kessler and hopkins wins. RJJ means nothing, just a money making excercise for the pair but i still have high hopes that he will round it all off with pavlik next spring in cardiff as the icing on the cake. the stuff he is saying to the press about pavlik is all too similar to the stuff he was saying about kessler before their fight was signed.

    a solid resume, nothing special.
    a super fighter.
    a decent career.

    could have done better but tailed off better than expected.