Calzaghe - only fighter to beat both Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr.

When did both guys actually talk about a fight?, you're clearly trying to be funny here but sounding extremely stupid at it. If Hakkar sounds funny then let me give you a long list of funny names too.

Salem
Pudwill
Ashira
Starie
Jiminez

And many more bums in the list. The only names you could mention for Calzaghe are: Hopkins(yeah, the man you're picking jokes at and a 43 year old one), Jones(hardly prime material), Lacy, Eubank and Kessler. Compare those 5 big names(two being completely shot) with the big names on Hopkins' record.

The bigger proof to you is Hopkins running after Calzaghe even at 43 and he was the one that made the fight happen, you think if he didn't push for it as he did it would happen?, the answer is no. Calzaghe didn't only want people to travel to him, he also wanted them to carry their belts and pay him more while at it.

 

Really doubt he tried, why did he get some major fights when he finally decided to travel(perfectly timed as well)?

You want the big fights YOU run after them and guys like Hopkins and Jones were obviously far bigger names, if he wanted the same recognition he ought to run after it. Fighting unknown scrubs in your hometown all your career doesn't bring it. Notice how the serious money started coming recently?, it's not Hopkins or Jones to blame, if Calzaghe wanted to make a big name for his self he should run after it, the big names won't come to you.

 

Well it was Joe who came to America to fight Hopkins and not only beat him on points but humiliated him. Hopkins desperately faking low blows to get a respite from Joe's nonstop attack. Disgraceful!!! Hopkins showed he is still a huge factor at light-heavy with his win over Tarver and Pavlik, bookended victories pre and post the Calzaghe fight. But he was reduced to foul tactics and feigning injury because he gassed from mid-fight onward. Joe toyed with Roy like no man has ever done. If either of those two American fighters had the courage to travel to Joe's country to fight him I'm sure Joe would have obliged them and those fights would have been a sight to behold as all three warriors would have been in their respective primes. All we know is that when they all met up at their late thirties, early forties Joe Cal was victorious.

 

First, I routinely sound stupid whilst trying to be funny. It's generally considered uncouth to actually mention this out loud, as most just roll with the punches anyways until I deliver my one funny post biweekly.

Second, you do a wonderful job of trying to deflect the original point- that this fight was originally supposed to happen in 2002 and had Showtime's backing until Hopkins nixed it by wanting to double his purse demands suddenly. Instead, we got Carl Daniels, Hakkar, and Joppy. Not terrible, but not Calzaghe either.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3094912
This is not the first time there has been talk about a Hopkins-Calzaghe fight. In July 2002, Hopkins, who was then with promoter Don King, was on the verge of signing a three-fight deal with Showtime, which was televising Calzaghe bouts at the time. In the second fight of the proposed deal, Hopkins would have moved up from middleweight to super middleweight to challenge Calzaghe in early 2003. But the deal imploded when Hopkins, who had initially agreed, backed out. "That's water under the bridge, and I don't want to go back over it," Hopkins said. "This is a new time, and my thing is, his career is where it is and my career is where it is. We should fight."


Third, when it was all said and done, Calzaghe did the travelling to Hopkins' back yard with Hopkins' ref, and still won.

So, after seeing Hopkins get dry humped into submission, I can see perfectly well why Hopkins wanted to wait 5 years to fight Calzaghe. It took him that long to stretch out his O-ring in preparation.

 

You fail to mention why Hopkins wanted more money. Hopkins was clearly the bigger name at the time, he was also the one moving up in weight and traveling to Wales to make the fight happen, he doesn't have the right to demand more money?

He never got dry humped into submission, as far as I know he still continued fighting and made far more money than Calzaghe had as it's clearly obvious with the major fights he had in comparison to what Calzaghe had.

Yeah that makes sense alright, Hopkins had to wait till he's 41 years old to make that fight happen and Calzaghe was up for it from the beginning with absolutely no constant hand injuries and bull**** delays. You fail to realise here that in the end the 41 year old is the one who encouraged to make the fight happen.

 

Let me correct you, shot to DEATH is when Joe was victorious, not only early fourties.

RJJ tried to make the fight happen with Joe when they were in their primes, Joe was quoted saying that it was going to be for very little money and the risk was huge. Not to forget his hand injuries and demands to be paid more with Jones having to bring his title to Wales. Doesn't sound ridiculous?

In the end Jones is the one who made the fight happen with Calzaghe when he was BEYOND shot and so did Hopkins, Calzaghe never went after those fights. It's pretty similar to Kessler and Lacy, if both those guys didn't push as hard as they can to make it happen it would have never happened and Joe would still be defending his title against the likes of Ashira, Bika and Manfredo.

 

He already agreed to the fight, then doubled his demands overnight, backs out, and then follows up by fighting someone who would've gone life and death with Pudwill in the 4h Fairgrounds championship league. Showtime was going to put the money up for the fight, but the purse demand broke the budget. Call it what you will, but it was still Hopkins who renigged, not Calzaghe.

I don't believe Hopkins was scared, I think it was pretty clear he didn't like what Calzaghe brought to the table from a risk-reward standpoint. It can hardly be Joe's fault that Hopkins saw enough to say "thanks, but no thanks".

Truth is, both guys fought guys they were leagues better than until the latter portions of their careers, only to do so well in big fights that many a fan was left wondering why the hell we hadn't seen it sooner and more often. Had the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight happened in 2002-2003, it would've beefed up both resumes and given us a much clearer idea on how to rank the two compared to each other.

Turnabout's fair play, though. I'd still like for Joe to have fought Glen Johnson at some point in time just to tie up loose ends.

 

I'm glad he didn't fight Johnson, that win wouldn't have done much for Calzaghe to be honest and I honestly believe Calzaghe would school him one-sidedly. Whoever thinks Calzaghe was scared of Johnson is crazy in my opinion since Johnson doesn't even come close to Calzaghe in terms of ability and skill.

About the Hopkins case, I think it's more a case of Hopkins demanding more for having to move up in weight and ditch the many other offers he already had and out it all on the line against an unknown in Calzaghe. Of course when I say unknown I mean to the public at the time, these boxers know each other very well, they don't need hypes or advertisements to get to know one another as I'm sure you know. That's why I'm with Hopkins and not Calzaghe in that one, of course it's a huge risk with no reward that's why Hopkins wanted it to be worth something and demanded more money if he had to get out of his weight division, put his name on the line and travel for someone who doesn't even have a single major win at the time. The Eubank win was great, no doubt but it can't be compared to a win over a big name like Trinidad for Hopkins.

In the end the fight happened and the rest is history, Calzaghe won fair and square. Hopkins beating Pavlik right after it in dominating/shocking fashion proves that the Calzaghe victory wasn't rubbish. The RJJ victory though is rubbish in my opinion.

 

It all worked out for the best for both parties, that's just the selfish fan in me talking because seeing them back then would've eliminated alot of debate today. :thumbsup

I agree Calzaghe would have dismantled Johnson (and still would), but Glen's one of the few guys people grasp at to discredit Calzaghe and for more mainstream fans/analysts than it should be, they'd need to actually see Calzaghe win to believe it. The Roy Jones fight happened for essentially the same reason (besides the obvious one of the paycheck, of course)- a surprising number of people still picked Roy and they had to see it to believe it.

I'd be surprised if that was Calzaghe's last fight, though- I still see him wanting to finish his career on his own turf. Now that Hopkins knocked the luster off of a potential Pavlik fight, it'll be interesting to see where both guys turn from here.

 

Scar, I've posted on this topic to you before.

There was verbal agreement from all parties on the money.

There was agreement on the location of the fight, NOT WALES, but USA.

Then, Bernard asked for double the agreed ammount.

No one can bargain like that.

It's called not bargaining in good faith.

Bernard ducked the fight, plain and simple. He would have been moving up slightly, to where he actually began his career, 175.

That the fight failed to materialize in 2002 is Bernard's responsibility, entirely.

He wasn't afraid of Joe. He was just too ****in' greedy.

This lack of business savvy and greed prevented Bernard from getting a number of bigger fights at that point in his career, including his much desired rematch with Jones.

IMO, he would have lost to Calzaghe anyway.


Jones is another matter. IMO, prime Jones would have beaten either Hopkins or Calzaghe (or any other fighter on the scene at 168 or 175).

 

beating 2008 Hopkins = Achievement, Applause Worthy, Tough Night @ Work
beating 2008 Roy Jones Jr. = Retirement Funds, Pension, EZ Money

 

ok the fight was rumoured to be in the works 6 or 7 years ago after bernard beat trinidad....so bernard comes to wales and wins?? so what?? name one fighter on joes record up to that point who would have made that win anything more than a syd vanderpool or glen johnson on bernards resume. Calzaghe had been fighting weak opposition was unknown on a world level the win would have meant nothing and bernard had come off his signature win and suddenly felt a sense of worth in the fight game

 

It was set for the States.

It would have made Hopkins a two-weight world champ(If won)

Calzaghe was a bigger name than Daniels and Hakkar, which is who he fought instead after his signature win, earning less money for the two combined than he would have earned against Calzaghe if he hadnt changed his mind.


*I personally agree with Hopkins descision, Risk/Reward wasnt worth it, Calzaghe hadnt done enough to force the fight, he could have gone to the States earlier and maybe fought a couple of Bhop's former opponents (Johnson)etc, to force the issue. Like Hatton did to get Floyd (Castillo).

 

i agree calzaghe had a bigger name but his resume was still wafer thin at that point and it probably would have meant nothing on bernards resume unless calzaghe would have come back and done big things which is a big if

 

His resume was thin.

If he lost he would still have done more than ok. Only person fighting around the weight at the time i would favour against Calzaghe would be Roy.

Your assuming Hopkins would win .