Calzaghe retired on top and has not lost a fight...so I ask you fans

calzaghe challenged Ottke and also mentions a fight with hopkins,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3330369.stm

the Sven Ottke fight didnt happen becuase he was to busy fighting fighters in germany he new he could beat

mid you calzaghe wasnt much different but i thin k the fact that he was warren's puppet stopped him from getting these fights

 

And who was the 'best' who Calzaghe should have gone after?

Froch is fighting Taylor. He's made noises towards Kessler. All well and good. He's looking towards the best in his division.

In 1998, after Calzaghe had beaten Eubank, the 'best' at 168 were (according to the Ring Rankings for the year) were:

1. Liles
2. Calzaghe
3. Woodhall
4. Ottke
5. Brewer
6. Reid
7. Tate

Did Calzaghe not go after 'the best'? He beat Woodhall, Brewer and Reid. He was scheduled to fight Tate, only Tate decided to retire two weeks before the fight. Liles lost to Brewer and then retired. Which only leaves Ottke. Could Calzaghe have gone on a suicide mission to Germany for no more money than he was earning for any other fight? Possibly. Would it have advanced his career? I doubt anyone who has seen Ottke v Reid can be confident that it would have.

 

that was a great performance by robin reid but when the ref was warning him that he was hitting Ottke to hard, Ottke hardly won a round, been about 3 years since a last watched it but it was the worse refereing I have ever seen

 

If you're telling me Calzaghe went after the best in his career I'm speachless. Seriously.

 

In fact don't take my word for it.

Have a read of what Warren thinks.

http://www.***********.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92359

 

I presented you the facts. You're the one lauding Froch for fighting a guy who is his mandatory challenger and for making noises in the media about fighting the number one in his division.

If such things impressed you, then as I have just shown you, Calzaghe did similar at a similar point in his career. In addition, we know he 'went after' Hopkins after Hopkins beat Trinidad, the deal was there but Hopkins preferred to fight Joppy at the time when he should have been fighting Calzaghe.

He made noises towards Jones in the same way as Froch is making noises towards Kessler? Could he have secured that fight with a different path? Maybe. That's far from certain, however. In reality neither party were interested enough in making the fight. Beatboxer has made an argument on this forum on several occasions that the person who Calzaghe should be criticised for not making enough effort to fight was Michalzewski, who he would have had a clear route to as WBO champion from a division below. I find that argument quite persuasive.

 

Read the link I posted from Warren.
Pay close attention to:

"After winning the WBO title I wanted Joe to capitalise on the big-money American market. I could have got him a few decent fights over there, but he wouldn't go. He was too much of a home boy."

and,

"Joe has done exceptionally well in his career but he could have done much better."

Now when the guys own promoter is saying he could have tried harder and he should have pushed himself in America, no offence but I'll listen to him over you.

 

The fact that you're presenting Frank Warren's opinion as fact probably says more about you than anything else.

You clearly haven't read your source at all though, because it doesn't back up your argument. So, you accept that Calzaghe made substantial offers to both Hopkins and Jones in the early 2000's, and that they did not want the fights? And yet you choose to criticise Calzaghe for not going after 'the best'? I'll ask again, who were 'the best' that he should have been 'going after'?

 

Yeh he made subtantial offer to them as long as they fought in Wales.... Now why would they do that when they were the champs ???

If Joe really wanted the fights he would have left for America just like. Clinton Woods, Hatton and now Froch

 

No dude, you got me way wrong.

I've had this Calzaghe debate way too many times to be arsed having it with you here and now, so since you'll just debate me I figured I'd let Warren do it for me, apparently the guys promoter isn't enough for you. Oh and btw when I say win the title and go after the best, I mean CONSTANTLY go after the best, not just in the infancy of his title reign. IE get over to the states early 2000ish etc force RJJ/Hopkins into a position where they'd have to face him. Like Hatton did with PBF. Face Johnson, Taylor, Pavlik, Dawson.

The source does back my argument, how the hell does it not??
Don't treat me like a Calzaghe hater either, I'm stating that there were bigger fights out there, I mean your defending a guy who fought Manfredo ffs.

HoF
80-100 ATG
6th best british boxer ever.

 

These are the names you got for me? Dawson and Taylor didn't even their debuts until 2001! Johnson was a nobody, in the middle of a run of 6 defeats in 8 fights, including against Sheika who Calzaghe then destroyed. Pavlik was fighting the early part of his career. Bar Johnson, who Calzaghe signed to fight twice and tried to on a third occasion, so we can't say he never 'went after' Johnson, even if some people suspect that psychological as well as physical problems contributed to the postponement of those fights, none of those were realistic anytime before 2006 at the earliest. But during that time period Calzaghe has faced the best possible opposition at both 168 and 175. He may well have fought Taylor, had Taylor not lost to Pavlik. I'm fairly convinced he would have fought Pavlik had Pavlik beaten Hopkins. Dawson would have been the obvious opponent, did Calzaghe wish to carry on now.

Really, Calzaghe's career is fine up until Mitchell. It's very good from Lacy onwards. The three year period between those two is weak, which is a shame. As has been noted it coincided with some personal problems in Calzaghe's life and maybe the two have some relation, but again it is hard to identify names in that period that Calzaghe could have fought but didn't either fight or try to. The names you've suggested are, apart from Johnson, unrealistic in the timeframe. It's a shame Hopkins didn't step up. It's a shame neither Jones nor Calzaghe seemed particularly desperate to make a fight. It's a shame the Johnson fights didn't happen when they should, it would have been a fairly routine win for Calzaghe, but names matter more in the American media than the actual quality of the victory and that would have been a good one.

 

Frank Warren is one of the last people I would listen to if I wanted a well thought out, impartial view of a fighter, especially one that ditched him and started legal proceedings against. :deal

 

lol at people suggesting Ottke atsch

My god JC could have ko'd ottke and still lost in germany.

No sane person would ever take a fight against ottke in germany.

 

I think this is a fair analysis. The only part I wouldn't agree with is the criticism for backing out of fights. The only fights he did pull out of were when he had serious hand injuries. I would say the only fight were Joe's desire to step in the ring could questioned was a series of false starts with the Glen Johnson date. However, at the Woods-Johnson fight, Calzaghe was at ringside rooting Johnson on so the fight could be made afterwards, nothing he could do about Johnson ****ing up his end of the deal.

As for Hopkins and Jones they simply didn't want the fight until Joe had beaten Lacy. The contract negotiators at HBO have confirmed this and to be honest you can't really blame them, he just wasn't a big enough name before this to warrant the risk.

 

Why did he not fight Sven Otke? And he never unified until he fought Kessler which was many many years after.

I can accept someone like RJJ not unifying a division because he was moving through the weight divisions and achieved some great feats... but Calzaghe stayed in one division fought mediocre opponants and then claimed to be the greatest Brit boxer Ever.... which is ridiculous