Calzaghe says he will retire after RJJ: the ultimate ducking move against Pavlik?

Calz. is not ducking Pav.,,,,,yet. It's pretty hard to duck somone if he's fighting somone else. If Pav. loses to Hopkins then Pav. is a non-factor. Then you have the Jones Calz fight, not a gimme fight either. One fight @ a time my friends, then let fly with the ducking calls. Did Calz. duck Pav. to fight Jones instead? It's possible, but I'm not convinced that he did. I just think took the best business route by fighting Jones 1st. Let the dust settle here.

 

LOL


Now you want me to go looking for pre-fight analysis for a tussle that went on almost 3 years ago?

You're going to find lots of folks in this sport who make predictions and who guess them right just by chance. While admittedly there was a huge (and clearly unjustifiable) lobby of analysts that were rooting for Jeff Lacy, there were also a number who were correct not only in predicting the outcome of the fight, but also the specific details of the fight.

Hell you can't just read by popular consent - you have to catch both sides of an argument and decide for yourself.

Generally the more knowledgable sections of the media were tipping Calzaghe to win, and were also favouring him to outwork Kessler. The margin he beat Lacy by was much larger than that expected though - which is probably why it was such a celebrated win.

 

To be sure I'm not critisizing Super Slappy Joe for taking the monied route. It's what I'd do - maximise revenues and minimise the risk of a loss as much as possible. It's a smart decision, and he'd do well to stick by it.

I also agree if Pavlik loses to Hopkins (which is already hoping on a longshot) it will be a good reason for Joe to say he (Kelly) doesn't matter :verysad .

I would love to see KP vs JC materialize though. I wonder how a fast slapping technique against a genuinely hard puncher with excellent technique and good stamina will hold up.

We can only pray :thumbsup

 

Calzaghe is right, nobody likes an undefeated fighter to retire unless its their favourite fighter & if JC beats Jones then Pavlik, people are just gonna come up with another name, I know boxing fans well enough to know that this will definitely happen, most are impossible to please.

:thumbsup

 

"More" knowledgable my shite. A far greater amount of boxing journalists, fighters, trainers and fans picked Lacy to win. To say that they are less knowledgable than the small % that picked Calzaghe to win is absurd.

 

I however, would rate Slappy Joe very highly in terms of bravery if he agrees to take on K. Pavlik. I would hold him in even higher regard as a boxer if he were to beat KP.

I would be fascinated to see how a pitty-patty style boxer overcomes a boxing fundementalist. :deal

 

You can't stop people from having opinions, no matter how ridiculous. Just look at this forum.

And popular consent is not necessarily a good guide to who will win a fight. Especially when one of the fighters hasn't received as much exposure as the other.

Jeff Lacy was seen as a Tyson-esque fighter, and his reputation was built as such. But even back then, boxing experts said he was limited.

A lot of the folks who made their predictions had not really seen Calzaghe fight, and didn't know how wily he was inside the ring. They also allowed the hype machine of Jeff Lacy to overcome them. It happened before, almost certainly will happen again. Hell, look at the Cotto-Marg fights -- some will argue it has happened already.

But a lot of folks are using this reasoning to suggest Calzaghe will beat Pavlik, and worse still, that he'll beat him easily. That is, quite frankly... ridiculous atsch.

 

the truth is that Kessler was a worse risk/reward fight than Pavlik, and Calzaghe took it anyways. If he doesn't wanna fight Pavlik anymore then the logical deduction is not that he is scared to lose, but rather that he doesn't have the motivation to come in at his best anymore.

 

What has any of that got to do with what you said earlier? I never said people weren't allowed have opinions. I never said people didn't get caught up in hype. I asked you to find me these so called "real" boxing journalists who "knew" Lacy was limited and wouldn't beat Calzaghe. Stop trying to change the subject. Either back up what your saying or admit you were talking ****.

 

And I told you already, I am not about to go scrolling around for a bunch of pre-fight opinions for a 3-year old tussle when we have already established that it doesn't mean squat - since anybody can have opinions on the subject that don't reflect the fight status.

Let's bring this on to a basic point - do you actually think Calslappy winning the fight against Lacy tells you he will beat Pavlik?

If you do, then (no offence) you're dumber than I thought. atsch

 

No. I think Calzaghe beating Kessler gives a far better account of how he would beat Pavlik. But tell me, what perfromance from Pavlik suggests he could beat Calzaghe?

Miranda? Taylor? That's his best wins right there. He has not fought anything like Calzaghe in his life. Yet numerous people here predict he'll walk through Calzaghe's "slaps" and spark him. Much like how Lacy was gonna do it.

 

Nobody huh ..Sure doesn't sound like it .

And Joe doesn't take the neccessary chances to become one ??

But Pavlik does ?atsch

How so with Taylor and Joe's most recent opponenet in Hopkins ??


Talk about a hype machine .



How Ironic !

 

That assumes that Pavlik fights as Kessler does, which is false. He uses the fundamentals far more soundly.

Let's go through the basics. Pavlik is taller and has a much longer reach than Kessler. Come fight time he would be around 3.5 inches taller than JC and have around a 4" reach advantage. Add to that, Kelly throws long, straight jabs that are effective in themselves. They accumulate damage on an opponent. Just take a look at Lockett in the 3rd.

He uses his money punch - the trademark right - often enough that it also begins to accumulate damage. He doesn't have an 88% KO ratio for nothing. Watch his fights - steps in, lands... steps out again. Uses that long reach to keep his opponent at bay. Simple, yes. But effective.

Keeps his gloves up almost continually. Now this aspect is less talked about but still very important. If you watch the Kessler - Slappy fight again, you'll notice that midway onwards Kessler began to tire and drop his hands too frequently. He was picked off by quick combos by JC, who darted in-and-out. I very much doubt Slappy Joe will get a chance to do that against Pavlik. It's not that Pavlik has a flashy defence - he doesn't. But he doesn't really need one.

Think about it this way - I don't think you'll argue with me that JC has oodles of power (if you do then let's stop the conversation right here). I WILL argue that he does have poor punching technique - it's not just that he doesn't sit down on his punches; when he lands them properly he does so with this "tapping" style (that he's famous for). While this builds a lead on the scorecards - it seldom produces KO's against quality opposition. I certainly don't think it will be enough to KO Pavlik the few times that he does get through cleanly.

Now let's look at the other side of the coin. You fob Miranda and Taylor
off like they were last years contenders (curiously I wonder why you then hold Lacy in such high regard, but we'll ignore that for the moment). But Miranda was still a feared puncher who had never been KO'd. And let's be honest, KP blasted him to the stratosphere. It wasn't just that he won but how solidly he crushed EM.

Taylor was and is a good athlete and a contender who never quite had championship mettle. But he beat B-hop twice (once is contendable, but I fully award him the 2nd fight). A much older version of which gave Joe C the hardest fight of his life. While I'm not claiming the former Olympian was the greatest MW ever it's hard to argue that he was not a technically sound fighter with good raw athleticism and a fair amount of power too.

Now styles make fights. So saying, "Guy A beat Guy B; Guy B beat Guy C; therefore Guy A will beat Guy C" doesn't really work. We have to take our accumulated knowledge of the styles and skills of both fighters and predict what happens.

Since I can't realistically see Joe C stopping KP for the reasons mentioned, I'm left to envision how he could possibly win. It would have to be a decision victory. The problem is, in order to slap his way to victory, he'd have to eat a huge number of punches (Pavlik with his relentless power punch output). Given that Joe C finds himself unbalanced so often, I think he is prime pickings for an accurate, relentless power puncher like KP. B-hop isn't exactly the most powerful puncher at LHW (or ever has been at MW). Yet when the opportunity arose he dropped Slappy J on his ass. And that's the same B-hop who throws 2 punches in a round and needs to be on a respirator after the 5th.

With "The Ghost", I'm afraid the Italian Dragon won't get that chance. He'll be slayed. :good

 

I'm not fobbing Miranda or Taylor off. They are good wins for Pavlik. Taylor 2 was even better than his first win over him as JT came into the 2nd fight and threw everything he had into the fight but was beaten nonethless. Miranda is a big puncher yes, but what else? Not exactly noted for his footwork or defense is he? Pavlik sorted him with little problems though and should be cmmended.

Now, what The Ghost hasn't faced is someone at all like Calzaghe. He simply hasn;t faced anyone as tireless as Calzaghe. Taylor can be quite tentative and lazy at times and allowed Pavlik to largely dominate both fights. I can not see Calzaghe letting this happen to him. Calzaghe has faced taller men before. He's faced big punchers before. I will also say that Pavliks accuracy falls short of Kesslers. On top of that, you mentioned his KO%. But who was that against? This isn't me implying Pavliks shots will bounce off JC's head with no effect, just that Pavlik will find it a great deal harder to hit someone like Calzaghe than anyone else he's met.

Calzaghe has shown his ability to glide around the ring with ease using nice lateral movement. Pavlik hasn't. He needs to set up his punches and have feet firmly planted to fire off his punches. JC is not gonna stand there and look at him doing that. All in all, I see Pavlik winning maybe 5 rounds at a push if they were to fight early 2009. After that the odds shift in his favour.

 

A lot of the problem is that when it came time to "put up or shut up" Joe did NEITHER. He started saying he was doing Kelly a favor because Kelly wasn't ready, blah, blah blah........ Had he kept his mouth shut about Kelly, there would be a lot less ammo....