Calzaghe top 100 as it stands now?

Ottke doesn't, nobody who has seriously followed the SMW's would suggest that.

Ottke didn't even fight better comp than Joe and he has about 3-4 universally considered robbery victories that ought to have been losses on paper, namely Reid, Brewer and Larsen, then about 5 other 'controversial' wins that were razor close but not considered outright robberies.

So, the verdict stays that Ottke was a decent B-B+ at his best, a good defensive pure boxer, but clearly not on this level. Had he just recieved his 3 losses officially, most people wouldn't have a problem ranking him in the top 12 SMW's.

Generally, the top 5 SMW's go as your choice between Jones, Toney, Eubank, Benn & Calzaghe, depending on how you want to rank them. Ottke's nowhere in that discussion and rightfully so.

Not trying to start a pissing contest with you here, I'm legitimately arguing against the notion that Ottke is anything in the mention of the top SMW's. He's got 21 defences on paper against consistent good opposition, but that's only on paper and everybody knows that. If we start just ranking by what's on paper alone, it becomes a mess.

On top of that one Lance, Ottke never fought anyone on the level of Eubank or Kessler, despite fighting consistently better opposition than Calzaghe fought for most of his career.

 

Not at all, Tszyu's an all time favourite, I'm trying to be reasonable.

That's not so, he performed at a level vs. nearly all styles except for slick counter punchers superior to Kostya. And again, Calzaghe has no losses to B level fighters like Hatton and Phillips, both of which are stoppage losses at that.

Those types of guys are stylistic poison to Tszyu, so it's forgivable, but Calzaghe's versatility is right up on another level and proven at that.

More accomplished than Eubank and Kessler? No way mate, Eubank's past his best and Zab's prime, but Zab's mentality is extremely weak and reduces him to the B-B+ level depending.

Zab became Undisputed WW off of a Cory Spinks win, also shares a loss to Cory and has **** performances all over the place against crap level fighters due to his hot and cold nature. Kessler on the other hand unified the title's and dropped only 5 rounds or so total to very solid comp, has a dominant win over a Zab level fighter in Mundine at that.

Judah, after beating Spinks, iced off Rivera faster than anyone else did, which because of how he did it, counts as a slight plus, then lost to Baldomir, Mayweather and Cotto in succession. Losses to Floyd and Cotto are no big deal, but do you see a pattern here?

I don't really rate Spinks well to begin with.

Now you are reaching in the way you are asserting this, maybe we're both biased. But yes, it's a good win and the way Kostya did it was impressive.

Because he was destroyed, it counts, but as an overall fighter, Mitchell is just a workhorse competiton tester.

Pernell was shot however, then Hurtado found himself KTFO by Pernell.

I disagree with this, you call me biased in this discussion, but you speak of your side in a similiar biased form.

Chavez was far more past it however, as evident from his performance and the Calzaghe/Eubank win has added points because of how green Calzaghe was at this point.

Again, reaching. You guys have no right to bring Ottke into the discussion because he did fight overall more consistent comp, but not better comp in the end and his title reign was not legitimate.

If you consider Calzaghe's resume as just full of bums, then you are not looking at things correctly and/or not judging performance in the resume critique also, something that you said ought to be counted in battling the classic era fantastics.

 

Cool Vince at his best was better than Brewer at his best, but not league's ahead by any means and that bout was pretty decisive for Phillips, which is the bad part.

 

It's not just an Ottke/Joe comparison in defence of Joe in biased form. It's a call not to even place Ottke in the discussion of top 5 SMW's period, it's unfair to any of the top, top SMW's to place Ottke near that level and in doing so it shows a lack of experience with the division and Ottke's run.

Well, there's a common opponent. Ottke got a controversial decision over Mitchell, Calzaghe obliterated Mitchell. Now, Ottke has no power, so he couldn't have just blown out Mitchell, but the equivalent for Ottke would have been a dominant decision victory.

A lot of fights could have been made, but there is bringing Ottke into the discussion, again.

Got a gift first go around, got a controversial razor close decision second go around. Anybody see a pattern here?

A lot of Ottke's wins aside from the 3 blatant gifts could have been official losses.

Brewer deserved a rematch, he was blatantly robbed the first go around.