Calzaghe vs RJJ's resume

Lets look at the best on RJJ resume

Young Hopkins - Calzaghe via comfortable UD, Hopkins left himself open more and would have been caught with some wild shots coming in

SMW Toney - I respect his technical defense but he is one of the most over rated fighters in recent history. Toney was never brilliant at adapting and Joe would outwork him

John Ruiz - I dont think Joe personally would have done well past LHW, its impossible to say how the weight factor plays into this fight

Antonio Tarver - UD for Calzaghe

Johnson - Same as above

 

Cant believe some still calling that a knock down. Try watch that forearm "punch" again..

But a prime Jones would beat Calzaghe on points!

 

He didn't start doing that until the end of his career, which is why I say:
past prime Calzaghe>>>>>>>>prime Calzaghe

 

I think Glen beats Calzaghe

 

Knockout,

Hi mate,

Sorry for the late reply!

I agree, I think that Joe definitely had a few more fights left in him. He could certainly have beaten Pavlik, but in my opinion he didn't want to go near him. Pavlik wanted the fight, but Joe wanted Roy's name on his resume. Gary Lockett was Joe's stablemate when he fought Pavlik, and Kelly made short work of him. I don't think Joe wanted any part of him at all. After Bernard beat Kelly, Joe said, it would have been an easy nights work for him, but he never said anything like that before Hopkins had beaten him.

I think Joe probably would have won the Super Six, but I can't make my mind up on how good Ward is. I like Andre Dirrell. He was one of my favourites to win it. I thought he definitely beat Carl, and later he had to pull out after the Abraham incident. I can't make my mind up on what would have happened between Joe and Ward. I think it would be a very close fight. I think Joe by a split decision maybe.

Getting back to an earlier fight between Joe and Roy, You're right, far inferior opposition went 12 with Roy. But as the old saying goes, styles make fights. Joe was a much better fighter than Antonio Tarver. But in my opinion, Roy would have a much easier night with Joe. I don't think Roy would have gone near the ropes in the fight. He would have kept the fight in the centre of the ring. The only way he would have gone to the ropes, is for a breather if Joe had've been throwing volumes of punchers aganst him. But I don't think that would have happened, because like I say, I don't think Joe would have been his normal self.

I think he'd have been too cautious. I think deep down he knew Roy was better than him, so he wouldn't have had 100% confidence, and for the first time in his career, he would have been up against a guy that was faster than him. So I don't think things would play out like your suggesting, but that's only my opinion. Did you hear what Richie Woodhall said after Roy's fight with Woods? Back in the BBC studio after the fight, Woodhall spoke briefly about a fight between Roy and Joe. He said "I think Joe could seriously test him at 168, but not at 175. Roy's got too much at 175." I think that was an interesting comment.

Regarding Floyd, I agree 100% with everything that you've said. Great analysis!

I don't like Floyd as a person, and his interviews make me cringe. But He his obviously a hell of a fighter. But I'm sick of reading on forums that he's the greatest Boxer that's ever lived. I hate reading things like that. I'm sure you say his fight with Oscar?

That version of Oscar had only fought 3 times in as many years. He was passed his best, and he was doing great, but he couldn't sustain it, and he ran out of gas. I think a 27 year old version of Oscar would definitely have beaten him on that night. Floyd Money Mayweather is obsessed with Money. That;'s all he ever speaks about. He's in the cheque cashing business. Well, he didn't want to cash Oscar's rematch cheque did he? Oscar begged for a rematch, saying "I know in my heart I can beat him" And Floyd didn't want to know, he retired.

Let's start with Tommy. The first thing I've got to say here is, in my honest opinion, Floyd wouldn't have gone in the ring with Tommy for a $100 Million dollars! And I'm serious! There's no way on earth that Floyd would have fought him! Not a chance! Tommy hearns was a freak of nature! The guy was what? 6.2? He was a great Boxer, had a fantastic jab, and had the power at 147 to knockout a 175 fighter! I just can't see how Floyd could have competed with him?

You look at how Tommy was ripped, how was it physically possible for him to weigh ten and a half stone? I can't get my head round it? I don't Floyd would engage him at all. I agree 100% with your analysis. He would have stayed in his shell, and lost nearly every round, because he wouldn't have thrown hardly any shots. But big mouth Floyd would never have fought him anyway!

SRL, The only thing that Floyd has over him, is a better defence. Ray had better footwork, he had equal handspeed, but had a better repertoire of shots. He was a lot more powerful, and he had a lot more courage and determination. I can't see how Floyd beats him. I think Ray would have had a pretty easy nights work, and I think going into the fight (again if Floyd had've fbeen willing to have fought him) I think Ray would have had a huge psychological advantage.

Duran, I see it like you. Floyd could be too fast for him, and Duran would have gotten frustrated. I can't make my mind up on this. At 135, Floyd was young and Duran was at his absolute peak. I think it would have been a very close fight, and I think Duran would have won. At 147, I think Floyd would have taken it. But I'm not a 100% sure. Roberto would have been relentless, and again you've got to take into consideration, how mentally prepared Floyd would have been.

He comes across as being laid back and cocky and arrogant, but I don't think he would have been against those three. Can you imagine the weigh in with Duran?He would have been in his face shoving him. It would have been great!

I can't say that I'm really looking forward to the Cotto fight. What do you think?

Thanks for the great debate. I really enjoy debating with you mate. I'd like to appologise for the name calling in my earlier posts to you. When I first came on here, I thought you were a Roy hater and a wind up merchant like Metal, so I didn't respect you at all, and I didn't realise, that your opinions were genuine. That's why some of my posts were aggressive towrds you.

So I'm sorry about that mate, I got the wrong end of the stick. Like I say, it's great that we have differences of opinion, it makes the debates more interesting.

It's been an absolute pleasure debating with you these last few weeks, and I really look forward to your reponses. You also have great knowledge of the sport.

Once again, sorry for the late reply.

Many Thanks!

Loudon.

 

Really? That's interesting mate. I've heard a few people say this. Didn't Joe pull out of a fight with him at some point?

Regards, Loudon.

 

I see what you mean. I don't feel Joe was motivated anymore, after beating Jones he had everything he wanted. If he wasn't motivated, he probably didn't want to risk losing to a fighter like Pavlik, which would have really harmed his legacy.

I agree, I think Joe would have won a close decision over Ward, maybe 8-4 or 7-5 in rounds, in a very close fight. Ward doesn't hit hard enough to hurt Joe, furthermore Ward tires in the championship rounds. An argument I've heard is that like against Froch, Ward won't give Calzaghe the mid-range, and would frustrate him similarly to how Hopkins did. However that doesn't take into account how skilled Hopkins is with lead right hands. How good is Ward's lead right hand? I wouldn't put it on the level of Hopkins'. Furthermore, Calzaghe is much faster both of hand and foot than Froch, he has better boxing skills than Carl and a much higher punch output.

Having said that, Ward gives any SMW in history a very difficult fight (including JC, RJJ and JT).

I think, if you look at Roy Jones' three biggest fights against Hopkins, Toney and Ruiz, he hardly if ever engaged his opponent. He made use of his superior hand speed, foot speed and skills to win a decision, mainly pot shotting, countering and running. I don't think he'd be particularly agreessive towards Calzaghe either, who had a great chin, which rules out the likelihood of a stoppage. I agree he would have kept the fight in the centre of the ring, whether he would fall back to the ropes would depend on his stamina. Joe would push him to the limit.

Personally, I feel that prime Floyd beats any version of Oscar, it was impressive towards the end of the fight, despite being the smaller man, Floyd was walking Oscar down and hurting him. His interviews are like marmite, love it or hate it haha. He's excellent at marketing fights, how big was Victor Ortiz's fanbase? Yet the fight still did amazing PPV numbers.

As for being the greatest boxer that ever lived, I don't see how he or his fans can justify it! I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.

I'm a massive Tommy Hearns fan, and I'm a big fan of Floyd Mayweather. I honestly feel that if Hearns or Leonard were around, Mayweather (and Pacquiao) would never have gone near the 147 division! These were two of the greatest ever, and I rank them higher than Floyd and Manny in terms of resume, H2H and P4P. Hearns was a freak of nature, if he came around at any time (except the late 40's and early 50's) other than when he did, he would have dominated all the way from 147-160. If he was around today, he'd be avoided like the plague.

Leonard had great defence of his own, although I give the edge to Mayweather. However, offensively it isn't even close, Leonard was also great at measuring his opponents and overwhelming them. See his fight with Mayweather snr, whilst Floyd is a far greater fighter than his dad was, Leonard had no problems with that philly shell, and shoulder roll. After the first few rounds, he absolutely hammered Mayweather. Leonard would simply overwhelm Floyd, who does not hit hard enough to keep him off. In (and around his prime), Leonard was troubled by three opponents, Duran because of his inside fighting skills, power, and the fact that Leonard engaged him in a brawl.

Hearns, because of his reach, jab boxing skills, hand-speed, the constant fear of getting tagged by that right hand, and Hearn's ability to box and win rounds going backwards.

Hagler, because Marvin was the bigger man, was much more physically strong, couldn't be hurt or slowed down and was so aggressive.

Now from there, I can't see any qualities Mayweather has that can trouble Leonard. He doesn't have Hearn's reach, jab, power or height. He doesn't have Duran's strength, power, inside skills and I doubt Leonard would engage him in a brawl. He's smaller than Leonard, so can't be compared to Hagler!

Floyd has the tools to beat Duran, and I give him a very good chance there, I make him the favourite at 147. He could frustrate him, similar to how Benitez did, by refusing to engage him and fighting his own fight like Leonard did in the rematch.

Absolutely not, Leonard and Hearns would decapitate him, and Duran would give him the fight of his life, and has a great shot at beating him (better than anyone he's ever faced). Duran was a very interesting character outside of the ring, could you imagine the entertainment value of a Duran-Leonard 24/7 before their first fight in Montreal

I'm really looking forward to Mayweather-Cotto, the advantages are in Cotto's favour with the fight being at 154, I give Floyd credit for that. I don't think Cotto has the hand speed, or the power to really trouble Floyd enough to win this fight. He's a great boxer, but Mayweather's even better. I see Floyd winning a UD, something like 8-4, this will be Floyd's toughest fight since Oscar.

What do you think?

No worries mate, it's been good fun :good. You really know your boxing, and I'll look out for your posts in the future.

 

Lets put it this way

If its prime Calzaghe vs Prime Jones, I would hardly say calzaghe had a punchers chance

 

Why wouldn't Joe even have a punchers chance? Who did Jones ever beat, that was a better opponent than a prime Calzaghe at 168?

 

Who did Joe beat that even half as good as prime Jones???

 

He loses to imo

Hopkins
Toney
Ruiz

The underrated fighters on Jones resume who would trouble Calzaghe

Reggie Johnson - arguably beat everyone he fought bar Jones Jr, that includes Toney. First class technical boxer

Harding - very good technician, a very short prime where he beat Tarver and Griffin and gave Jones trouble

Tarver - Joe should win really but the size, power, speed and counter punching of Prime Tarver trouble him, no doubt

He beats but has competitive fights with:

Hill - a champion for 10years, went on to have Cruser success, I reckon he takes 4 rounds off Joe

Mallinga - underrated and often robbed

McCallum - old, but so was Hopkins and McCallum is just as skilled so would make it close

Griffin - good enough to fight 2 razor close decisions with Toney and be ahead against Jones. He'd take rounds off Calzaghe but get outworked

If you were a fan of Calzaghe you'd know he has many talents but he is no puncher. I can't actually remember a fight where he had his opponent down for the 10 count. Most of his stoppages are premature. Plus he couldn't stop a shot Jones with no punch resistance. Many talents but power isn't 1 of them and please don't quote me Eubank kissing his ass

 

James Toney !

 

He only loses to Ruiz.

 

And young Bhop.

 

He lost the Tarver and Toney fights