Calzaghe would of been murdered by James Toney (Video)

why don't you post your scorecard?

 

Because I never claimed something as crazy as Calzaghe winning every round past the 3rd. I want his scorecard so that I can watch the fight and see why he gave it to Calzaghe, when I watched the fight it was close and I had B-Hop edging it. But if he can convince me that Calzaghe dominated as he states then maybe I can have a new appreciation for Calzaghe?

Basically, I'm trying to get his analysis so I can re-watch the fight through his eyes and see if he's right or wrong. My scorecard has nothing to do with how he watches a fight.

 

I haven't got time to watch and do a scorecard fo you now but I remember the last time I did it I had Joe by 2 or 3.

If not for the innept reffing of Joe 'firm but bent' Cortez we may have had a stoppage.

 

I'm asking for anglosaxons scorecard, since his opinion is 100x more important then mines I believe that asking for his scorecard shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Calzaghe by 2 or 3 is a close fight, especially if it's 2 because then it would only be a 1 point victory (knockdown) so I could see how we would have 1 or 2 maybe even 3 rounds scored differently. But to claim that Calzaghe won rounds 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 is suspect.

 

And without any doubt. Seven years junior, Joe looked like a rank amateur technically and athletically for long stretches against a 43-year old ex-great. Fortunately, Joe had more in his tank to compensate for being the obviously lesser boxing talent - and I had him narrowly ahead at best at the end and would have been comfortable with a draw in light of how poorly the comparatively younger fighter performed (Joe landed almost nothing cleanly .. perhaps 50-60 .. the punch stats were either entered by his son or bonus points were given for best impersonation of Jerry Lewis slapping like a spastic).

The most regular and repeated comments I heard from people after the fight at the Thomas & Mack and in the casinos that night was "lousy fight .. Bernard, is so old .. why is he still fighting? and "Who was that other guy? .. never heard of him .. he isn't much good".

-----------------

Good post overall.

This is ESB .. Joe is a golden idol (demographics). In fact, athletes are defined by their competition. When you do not fight any great athletes in their prime it is not reasonable to automatically conclude that this was some arbitrary occurrence, an unintended consequence, or an act of fate. Under mostly favorable conditions, Joe struggled with too many undeniably modest talents to demonstrate anything more than being closer to that level than any material distance above it.

Many fighters he struggled with could have been afforded rematches rather than instead meeting other throw away opponents. Or, in such a weak division like SMW, he could have been matched with the intent of finding the best comp every single time to provide the highest level of entertainment rather than attempting - as the primary objective - to protect his record at all costs [Similarly, BHOP did the same thing with his title defense streak - except he did it when he was older than Joe - Joe's "careful screening" basically began post-Eubank]. The timing, location, and officiating of his fights were always more advantageous than not. The only few greats he ventured to meet in the ring - in a fifteen year career - all gave him trouble either for moments or in the fight's entirety. Two of the three were worn by time and/or age (40+) and meaningless due to that factor yet elucidating because Joe struggled clearly in his comparative level of athletic talent and skill. If one can't see that then they simply must be unable to assess - probably because they are essentially a rather lousy non-athlete themselves - yet a boxing fan nevertheless. Most greats knock out some decent number of opponents and especially those who are noted for fighting in a weak era or against inarguably weak opposition. Joe stopped no one after the first 22 odd bums he fought. Mitchell was a ridiculous stoppage, and Sheika the same. Even by accident, real greats stop some opponents. Not Joe.





The best version of James Toney would land what Joe couldn't see or avoid and eventually drop and stop him. Joe would have zero chance of hurting Toney and did not possess the athletic quality to cope with a prime version of the sport's true greats and obtain a victory. He was good enough to give older versions a good scrap if he was younger than they and by walking that path from beginning to end enjoyed a long and fruitful career.


The morning and markets beckon .. cheers from LV to all.:hi:

 

I have read noobs on here stating that Calzaghe would outwork Toney, obvious that they have only been watching him at heavyweight for a few years and completely oblivious that he had several fights over 1000 punches himself

 

Stylistically, Toney beats Calzaghe. As long as Toney comes in top shape, he beats Calzaghe any day of the week. Joe Calzaghe was made for James Toney! The sloppy defence, the bad punching technique, the lack of head movement - all of this would have been Paradise for Toney, he would not miss a right hand all night long. This fight would be a hell of a lot more one-sided than 90% of people think. Put someone with Calzaghe's technical deficiencies in with a guy with Toney's skillset, and it'd be a roast.

 

All of calzaghes flaws and technical deficiences? The true definition of exposed is when someone who no1 gives a chance goes onto beat the heavy fave, not just once but a few times in Toneys career. Where as Calzaghe was never exposed by anyone in that sense. So if anyone had flaws it was clearly Toney.

 

You are really generous for Calzaghe. If shot RJJ and old Hopkins with zero workrate both sent him on canvas in the opening round, I would be more than surprised if he goes full distance without getting knocked down against JT. Honestly, I would be surprised if the fight just goes the distance.

JT had iron chin with good power, while Calzaghe had none of it, and I do not think his workrate alone would make much difference here. He was too easy to hit, and while it didn't matter much with the mediocre opposition he met, Toney with his counters would definitely capitalize on it.

 

:nonoCalzaghe had a decent chin and the best powers of recovery I have seen. Honestly on this forum as soon as you get knocked down your chinny!

Jones Knockdown was a forearm smash and Hopkins caught him cold with a great shot!!!

 

You must never have seen Juan Manuel Marquez fight then. When JMM got dropped, he wasn't getting dropped by guys with no killer instinct, like a past-prime Hopkins or a shot-to-**** Jones, or by B-level fighters like Mitchell, or D-level fighters like Kabary Salem. JMM was dropped by a world-class predator like Manny Pacquiao, who went hell for leather once JMM got up, and (especially in the 2nd fight) he was dropped hard - yet Marquez got up and fought through the pain and the storm in a way that Calzaghe never had to.

 

If Calzaghe did a two fisted slap attack while Toney is in the philly shell and the fight is happening in Cardiff, Calzaghe by his special (Manfredo) stoppage.

Toney would have ****ed Calzaghe up.

 

I'll give you marquez is brilliant but I would put Joe right up there. That Salem knockdow would have finished a lot of fighters.

 

Please name all the titles and weight divisions.