Calzaghe's glorious title fights vs The Future @ 168

drozzy · Sep 28, 2011

Auracle21 said: ↑

the boxrec warrior is striking again drozzy lol. you are wasting your time.
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he always needs to have the last word no matter what... the nature of this thread pissed him off...

/end thread

(plus a last one from that mental guy)

bailey · Sep 29, 2011

Auracle21 said: ↑

the boxrec warrior is striking again drozzy lol. you are wasting your time.
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So you are reading my posts atsch

BlackBrenny · Sep 29, 2011

bailey said: ↑

So you are reading my posts atsch
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Dont bother paying attention to these idiots, notice none of them addressed my point

Russell · Sep 29, 2011

Brit Sillynanny said: ↑

Joe's record is actually misleading if not abysmal.

It is hardly impressive relative to what great fighters have accomplished in the ring - anyone who is honest and has witnessed his entire career knows how manufactured, contrived, and irrelevant is that "zero".

Bute may well be the current era's honored graduate (summa cum laude) and valedictorian of the Joe Calzaghe school of fight matchmaking: fight no one unless they are old, fight no one unless it is at home, fight only under your own sole promotion to insure the obvious benefits that inure (leaning judges, handpicked refs, dishonest docs, corrupt and influenced belt officials and sanctioning body administrators, disparate facilities, accommodations, and ancillary provisions, etc., etc.) and never take a challenge if the opponent is talented, near prime, and fighting on a level playing field.

As for some prior comments made ...

Joe won the first four rounds versus CE and about 2 after that. The fight was a near draw. Joe faded quickly after the good start and caught the same punch repeatedly with his FACE from a well worn FAR past peak short notice weight-cutting affected sub Eubank. Joe was shook as the 12th ended. That performance was well overrated all things considered.

As for the Reid fight I should put up a video of highlights. Reid landed nearly ALL the hard punches in the entire fight. This one was a narrow Reid victory. Joe in the post fight never mentions ANY hand injury and none was EVER evident. I don't know where this fiction ever came from but it is likely due to Joe lamely and unconvincingly saying in search of a defense or explanation for his crappy performance in the post fight interview that early in his camp for this fight he had an elbow problem that HAD bothered him (many weeks earlier). Joe knew he looked exactly as he is - a fighter really on the same general level as a Robin Reid (and both guys were physically limited and unimpressive relative to elite and really great athletes). The condition of his hand was never a factor in his getting caught by Reid's bigger punches to the grill.

As for the Hopkins fight the man was over 43 years of age. Expecting perfect consistency out of an athlete of that age is absurd. Additionally, everyone in the US knows that boxing has long been in decline and BHOPs' accomplishments would be far tempered if young great athletes were pursuing the sport. I have one home in Vegas and if anyone else made the trip out here they should be able to attest that Joe was dismal at the Thomas & Mack. Joe looked mediocre and less talented athletically relative to a 43 year old athlete (and yes BHOP looked old, soft, and tired). The prevailing comments when we hit the casinos the rest of night from the patrons at the gaming tables can be summarized as the following: who was that white guy he wasn't much good, Hopkins is still fighting?, Hopkins should retire he looks old in the ring, and that fight was absolutely horrible.

The real comparative for guys like Calzaghe or Bute is to take note of what great fighters and ambitious athletes have done even in this lackluster and weak era of the last generation or so. De la Hoya fought many tough opponents and challenged himself to move from 135 all the way to 154. Little Shane Mosley fought many tough and larger opponents than himself and competed from 135 up to 154. Felix Trinidad fought many tough opponents and challenged himself from 140 to 160. Ronald Wright fought twenty out of fifty-seven fights outside the US, rarely had the promotion, and never ducked a challenge. Erik Morales fought many many tough opponents and competed from 122 to 140. Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Manual Marquez, Joel Casamayor all challenged themselves to move up multiple divisions and fight the best. Manny Pacquiao's story is well known and a testament to putting one's talent EVEN up against the offset of physically larger athletic opposition. Even Mayweather - while hardly a large welterweight at 5'8" - has at least moved up from 130 to 147 (Calz only ever ventured to move up 4% in weight twice to meet two old LHWs when everyone knows he had to eat like a mouse for fifteen years to make 168. We don't talk about Bute moving up because everyone is still waiting for him to face a real opponent for the very first time at 168.).

Certainly others can put up their own examples of great fighters moving up multiple divisions to find greater challenges (such as RJJ or Toney - one (RJJ) moved up for the challenge solely and lack of competition from athletes more similar in size to him and the other (JT) due to his eating habits - both had the talent to move up and give hell to larger athletes - and proved it, etc., etc.). Older fans will certainly recall SRLs move up to try and add higher weight class belts to his collection as a precursor to the more recent fighters noted above..

Obviously Calzaghe and Bute fall into the opposite end of the spectrum (the lowest or bottom) of the type of ambition, confidence, and search for athletic competition that defines truly great athletes and historical athletic accomplishment.
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Amazing post :happy

kmac · Sep 29, 2011

Brit Sillynanny said: ↑

Joe's record is actually misleading if not abysmal.

It is hardly impressive relative to what great fighters have accomplished in the ring - anyone who is honest and has witnessed his entire career knows how manufactured, contrived, and irrelevant is that "zero".

Bute may well be the current era's honored graduate (summa cum laude) and valedictorian of the Joe Calzaghe school of fight matchmaking: fight no one unless they are old, fight no one unless it is at home, fight only under your own sole promotion to insure the obvious benefits that inure (leaning judges, handpicked refs, dishonest docs, corrupt and influenced belt officials and sanctioning body administrators, disparate facilities, accommodations, and ancillary provisions, etc., etc.) and never take a challenge if the opponent is talented, near prime, and fighting on a level playing field.

As for some prior comments made ...

Joe won the first four rounds versus CE and about 2 after that. The fight was a near draw. Joe faded quickly after the good start and caught the same punch repeatedly with his FACE from a well worn FAR past peak short notice weight-cutting affected sub Eubank. Joe was shook as the 12th ended. That performance was well overrated all things considered.

As for the Reid fight I should put up a video of highlights. Reid landed nearly ALL the hard punches in the entire fight. This one was a narrow Reid victory. Joe in the post fight never mentions ANY hand injury and none was EVER evident. I don't know where this fiction ever came from but it is likely due to Joe lamely and unconvincingly saying in search of a defense or explanation for his crappy performance in the post fight interview that early in his camp for this fight he had an elbow problem that HAD bothered him (many weeks earlier). Joe knew he looked exactly as he is - a fighter really on the same general level as a Robin Reid (and both guys were physically limited and unimpressive relative to elite and really great athletes). The condition of his hand was never a factor in his getting caught by Reid's bigger punches to the grill.

As for the Hopkins fight the man was over 43 years of age. Expecting perfect consistency out of an athlete of that age is absurd. Additionally, everyone in the US knows that boxing has long been in decline and BHOPs' accomplishments would be far tempered if young great athletes were pursuing the sport. I have one home in Vegas and if anyone else made the trip out here they should be able to attest that Joe was dismal at the Thomas & Mack. Joe looked mediocre and less talented athletically relative to a 43 year old athlete (and yes BHOP looked old, soft, and tired). The prevailing comments when we hit the casinos the rest of night from the patrons at the gaming tables can be summarized as the following: who was that white guy he wasn't much good, Hopkins is still fighting?, Hopkins should retire he looks old in the ring, and that fight was absolutely horrible.

The real comparative for guys like Calzaghe or Bute is to take note of what great fighters and ambitious athletes have done even in this lackluster and weak era of the last generation or so. De la Hoya fought many tough opponents and challenged himself to move from 135 all the way to 154. Little Shane Mosley fought many tough and larger opponents than himself and competed from 135 up to 154. Felix Trinidad fought many tough opponents and challenged himself from 140 to 160. Ronald Wright fought twenty out of fifty-seven fights outside the US, rarely had the promotion, and never ducked a challenge. Erik Morales fought many many tough opponents and competed from 122 to 140. Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Manual Marquez, Joel Casamayor all challenged themselves to move up multiple divisions and fight the best. Manny Pacquiao's story is well known and a testament to putting one's talent EVEN up against the offset of physically larger athletic opposition. Even Mayweather - while hardly a large welterweight at 5'8" - has at least moved up from 130 to 147 (Calz only ever ventured to move up 4% in weight twice to meet two old LHWs when everyone knows he had to eat like a mouse for fifteen years to make 168. We don't talk about Bute moving up because everyone is still waiting for him to face a real opponent for the very first time at 168.).

Certainly others can put up their own examples of great fighters moving up multiple divisions to find greater challenges (such as RJJ or Toney - one (RJJ) moved up for the challenge solely and lack of competition from athletes more similar in size to him and the other (JT) due to his eating habits - both had the talent to move up and give hell to larger athletes - and proved it, etc., etc.). Older fans will certainly recall SRLs move up to try and add higher weight class belts to his collection as a precursor to the more recent fighters noted above..

Obviously Calzaghe and Bute fall into the opposite end of the spectrum (the lowest or bottom) of the type of ambition, confidence, and search for athletic competition that defines truly great athletes and historical athletic accomplishment.
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what a bad ass post! :good exactly my feelings.

BlackBrenny · Sep 29, 2011

But when Pavlik does it and gets a hatchet job done on him by a "43 yr old past prime Hopkins" he's still relevant. From probably the same people who thought Pavlik would have too much for Calzaghe 4 years ago

kmac · Sep 29, 2011

BlackBrenny said: ↑

But when Pavlik does it and gets a hatchet job done on him by a "43 yr old past prime Hopkins" he's still relevant. From probably the same people who thought Pavlik would have too much for Calzaghe 4 years ago
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the same pavlik that joe ran away from. joe went straight to jones after bhop. a pavlik fight would have been bigger and joe probably wins but it was too big a risk.

BlackBrenny · Sep 29, 2011

kmac said: ↑

the same pavlik that joe ran away from. joe went straight to jones after bhop. a pavlik fight would have been bigger and joe probably wins but it was too big a risk.
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LOL you sound like the ones who say he ducked Froch and that Hatton ducked Witter.. What a load of ****

kmac · Sep 29, 2011

BlackBrenny said: ↑

LOL you sound like the ones who say he ducked Froch and that Hatton ducked Witter.. What a load of ****
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joe beats froch and hatton beats witter, easy. just stating the facts. joe knew jones' name would look good on his incredibly weak resume and he could hopefully fool some people into thinking he was a great fighter. good fighter, yes. great, no.

drozzy · Sep 29, 2011

drozzy said: ↑

Omar Sheika deserved a fight vs Joe because he had just beaten Glen Johnson, right? Johnson had back to back losses to Ottke, Vanderpool and Branco before he fought Sheika. Otherwise, all Sheika did before Johnson and Calzaghe was fight bums. In fact, every time Sheika faced a remotely good boxer, he lost (Lucas/Pemberton/Lacy/Beyer).
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BlackBrenny said: ↑

he still destroyed omar shika after sheika beat glen johnson... know that name?
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Hmm..? Say what?

BlackBrenny · Sep 29, 2011

drozzy said: ↑

Hmm..? Say what?
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And Johnson must not have been good cuz Sheika beat him..Is that your logic? Either way Joe did not duck Johnson, and certainly could have beaten Johnson

BlackBrenny · Sep 29, 2011

kmac said: ↑

joe beats froch and hatton beats witter, easy. just stating the facts. joe knew jones' name would look good on his incredibly weak resume and he could hopefully fool some people into thinking he was a great fighter. good fighter, yes. great, no.
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He called out Hopkins years ago, before and after the Byron Mitchell fight...

drozzy · Sep 29, 2011

BlackBrenny said: ↑

And Johnson must not have been good cuz Sheika beat him..Is that your logic? Either way Joe did not duck Johnson, and certainly could have beaten Johnson
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Why would it be "my logic"? Are you also implying I said Joe didn't want to fight Johnson?

Johnson's experience today is something not a lot of other SMW's can bank on in close fights. And the man is still pretty fit. He wasn't the chess player in the ring he is now, back then when he lost to Ottke, Vanderpool and Branco back to back before (losing to) Sheika. I'd be curious to hear Glen talk about that part of his career.

bailey · Oct 1, 2011

Its taken me a few days to muster the stomach to read Drossy B.S. Still lets have a look and destroy his rubbish.

drozzy said: ↑

Wow. "I havent discredited the Eubank win, so you are telling lies" - your logic was flawed, end of. How is you not discrediting the Eubank win (and why the fukk would you, I never implied that you deluded tool) a reason for..... me telling lies?!??? Read post #20 again, there's something in there that prompted you to say that and you can't say what.

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Highlight quote #20 because Im looking at your thread start, which reads - On the other hand, years-past-prime Eubank was coming off two excellent wins; one was a KO5 over 35-8-4 Luis Dionisio Barrera (who weighed 161 vs Eubank's 177) at an "indoor arena" in Cairo, and the other was a KO4 over 13-2 Camilo Alarcon -Eubank ended his short career-
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The great part with you is how you try and skip the details you want to

What you quoted there is the end of my first post. You started with "Drossy is a knob hater. He discredits the Eubank win but compare that to Wards win over Kessler." - so I say both Eubank and Kessler were past prime, former SMW icons, and explained later how Eubank had very little left in the tank and how Kessler, because of differences in age vs schedule (put the blame on eras, boxing's popularity level, whatever), was indeed a lesser fighter than he was before Calzaghe but that he wasn't as worn down by ring wars as Eubank was... allowing him to be competitive for years to come, and that's exactly what he's doing.

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Years/age atsch Eubank and Kessler were the same age with a similar amount of fights

Again, you fail to comprehend. Eubank is 24 and meets the elite, Benn. 24 fights pass, mostly wars for his SMW title. Kessler is 28 and meets the elite, Calzaghe. Yes fukk off with Siaca and Beyer, the only 'elite' thing they ever had was a piece of hardware. That's 3 fights, not 24, before he faces Ward. Lots left in the tank. Not all fighters start getting affected physically/mentally at the same stage in their careers therefore not at the same age, you should know that. But you obviously don't.

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I understand what you are trying to say but once again you have skipped the details of what I wrote. All fighters are different, look how Morales had so many wars at a younger age and now at an older age is fighting hard against Maidana.
So you think because Eubank had a war with Benn atsch. He managed many title fights after, even beating an undefeated former SMW champ who became a 2 weight champ

And they said Joe needed a name, someone who was recognized on the world scene, on his resume. Et voilà. "Can Eubank do it?" they asked, not "Can Joe outclass fatigued and slow Eubank?".
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Whos they? You see here is Drossys B.S.
100 years of Boxing News said Eubank was favourite. I also posted a link, but admit I know little of the link

...says an individual who cannot accept defeat. You can't debate the facts I bring to the table.

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You havent brought any facts forward

Wow, what a load of bullshaaaaaaaaaat. Calzaghe had half the crowd behind him and was driving distance away from home. Gimme a fukkin break you deluded loser.

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This is your answer to a fact. You see, I gave you a genuine fact and you couldnt debate it

The reality is, you fail to understand how Eubank could have been shot before Calzaghe given the wars and the style matchups he went through, especially with Collins saying he had lost an edge when he fought him, and how Kessler was yes past his peak physically and mentally due to the beating he took in '07, but still fresh if you consider the big picture in terms of career length and level of opposition. As well, for Eubank it was an opportunity, a payday he was offered - take it or leave it. Kessler however had the right to stand up and say his eyes weren't 100% as you keep mentioning, ultimately delaying the fight the way Froch and Ward did. Kessler also underestimated relatively unknown Ward, where as Eubank knew he was up against the young lion next door who had been scouted as betting favourite. Kessler was favourite to win the S6.

Carl Thompson? For a blown up SMW counter-puncher, why not?!?

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So you couldnt answer my post and write this :-(
This shows how little you know of the fighters. Thompson by this time was a full blown CW. Who years later beat undefeated Haye... Oh at a higher CW limit also
Eubank was supposed to be fighting M Prince who then was considered a tougher fight than Calzaghe.
Some bookies made Froch favourite and some made Abraham S6 favourite, so lets not try and look at one bookies.
Eubank fighting Thompson would be like Kessler trying to fight a big world rated CW like Huck. I doubt Kessler would be able to go up and fight like Eubank did.
As for shot Eubank answer the question Eubank only lost to Thompson by a close decision and then rematched Thompson losing on injury when ahead. Thats Thompson who years later past his best KOd D Haye.
How past his prime do YOU think he was? For a shot fighter Eubank was able to give and take alot in those fights.

Again, Eubank faced world class opposition for 7 years before Calzaghe, was involved in very tough fights and got worn down losing speed in the process. Kessler started facing world class opposition in '07 with undefeated Andrade and obviously Calzaghe, before then his W's were mostly one-sided TKO's in which he wasn't absorbing a lot of damage. Kessler lost an edge after Calzaghe, but was still fresh enough for Ward and considered less shot than Eubank.
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This is your opinion. Your opinion on a thread started to discredit Calzaghe . Look at how Hopkins was called shot after Calzaghe beat him and what he went on to do

Good thing he had been in training. He was huffin and puffin by the 9th round. Still doesn't give him plenty of time to know what's up with Calzaghe's style and come up with a game plan, where as Joe had been ramping up to the fight of his life at the time... and had cared for Eubank as a potential opponent way more than Eubank did towards him.

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Many fights puff in the 9th round but neither was looking like Bute when exhausted in round 12 against Andrade. So what.
Still once again your opinion. You make it sound like fighters cant raise their game, look at how V Klitschko was offered at a weeks notice a shot at Lewis when training for a 10 rounder. Klitschko put up a great fight.
So easy schooling you Drossy because 90% of what you write is just your bias opinion

Same BS as your other post, to which I replied (unanswered):

--A bit sub par for Kessler, nothing alarming given the fact he had a nice KO12 over undefeated top 15 Sartison and layed low for a bit given how he lost the titles in the first place. For Eubank, here's a quote from post #1 in this thread...
"On the other hand, years-past-prime Eubank was coming off two excellent wins; one was a KO5 over 35-8-4 Luis Dionisio Barrera (who weighed 161 vs Eubank's 177) at an "indoor arena" in Cairo, and the other was a KO4 over 13-2 Camilo Alarcon -Eubank ended his short career- at a tennis club in Dubai. Eubank knew he was a stepping stone for Calzaghe, with this kind of short notice and known condition / recent opposition."

Sartison was top 15, ranked by the alphabet bodies or not, not top 10 like you were implying I said. And in '08 at SMW, that's being conservative.

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top 15 by the WBA what about the others?

12-0-4 66 42 years 9922 6 titles 889 clearly 4490384 is your kind of bullshat and means even less
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:huh

Come to think of it, the Sky Sports commentators mention it in the first two mins of the first clip. Betting favourite for a reason, and in what you call an away fight LOL!!

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First 2 mins of what clip? Its not in the first 2 mins of the fight. But they did say Calzaghe was untried.

So? So you were implying an edge to Calzaghe with those 2 KD's vs Ward's win... past prime and fatigued counter-puncher who's fairly static vs a young volume slapper with 22(21) on his record - recipe for sparks, and Eubank wasn't even rocked in the first KD.

So yes...

Ward beating 2009 Kessler who had lost the edge but still had good physical resilience

made more of a statement than

Calzaghe beating 1997 Eubank, who was handed a short notice world level opportunity after losing twice to the guy he replaced, and who didn't have the physical resilience to go 12 good rounds countering Joe like he could have in 1990-92.

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I showed you the similarities of the Eubank and Kessler victories.
Once again dummy. Eubank was training for a fighter considered a tougher fight than Calzaghe. We know years later that Calzaghe was better than thought, but Prince was considered a tougher fight then.
You claim how Eubank didn't have the physical resilience to go 12 good rounds countering Joe like he could have in 1990-92. Yet Eubank ran a CW champ close twice after
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bailey · Oct 1, 2011

kmac said: ↑

the same pavlik that joe ran away from. joe went straight to jones after bhop. a pavlik fight would have been bigger and joe probably wins but it was too big a risk.
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At this time Calzaghe was a LHW and Pavlik a MW. The LHW champ fighting the #6 LHW was considered a bigger fight than the LHW champ beating the MW champ.
Pavlik was offered a Calzaghe fight before he was MW champ and didnt want to take it

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