Camacho and Leonard: Shades of Jealousy

I guess you could say that but you must also see the other side of the equation about Hector.

It's unfortunate that Ray went for the bait but not for me because these are questions I always wanted to know. I have always been curious to know if Leoanrd could handle a speed demon like Hector since the time I watched hector's effortless dispatch of Howard Davis. This fight came off roughly two months after the hagler-leonard fight and it had me thinking "I bet Hector could take him. I really do"

Well as luck would have it, this fight became a reality and my questions were answered.

Can Leonard handle the speed of Camacho?

Can Hector handle a bigger man?

How much did the Chavez beating take out of him?

Can Hector regain a small part of the greatness that was once his?

Does hector regain the killer instincthe once showed?

Who is the better infighter?

And of course the all important question of which man is REALLY the better fighter

And we found out

 

Ali did that as well. He's not the only fighter to do so. :huh

 

I was talking about the 76 Olympians but you're right. Ali must hold the record

Ali has beaten Patterson, Spinks, Frazier, and Foreman and is one himself

 

I don't think the Leonard fight should have answered any of that. Leonard looked terrible in 1997 vs. Hector and even very bad 6 years earlier in the beating he took from Norris which was terrible. As for Camacho,Hector could not handle Tito or Oscar which were more logical fights, and Chavez outclassed him and was his age. Leonard was looking for the easiest fight he could get with the biggest name and Hector Camacho came up. He almost fought Pazienza I remember. He just was jealous of Duran and Hearns who were still fighting, but those guys had something he didn't. Power.. Ray's power always came from speed, but once his speed was gone his power was gone. If you think we found out who the better fighter was then that is fine. Ray was much greater than Hector in my mind. He beat Duran,Benitez,Hearns,Hagler -real ATGs when they were champions. Camacho lost when it mattered and was easily outpointed by Tito and Delahoya and Chavez battered him. Too bad this fight happened. It proved nothing in my mind except how diminished Leonard was and how Ray's ego still wanted the spotlight years after his speed diminished. Ray's speed started to diminish 10 years before. He was a great fighter but his longevity was not great. He got old faster than any of the fab 4.

 

Hearns fought Leonard from the 1976 Olympics, he fought Shuler who was on the 1980 team which would have gone but the Olympics were boycotted, he beat Virgil Hill who won a medal in 1984, he beat Andrew Maynard who won a medal in the 1988 Olympics. Has anyone fought fighters from 3 or 4 Olympics like Hearns?

 

Well I have my answer. Very impressive. Hearns fought them at different weights, but different stat.

 

Vinny Pazienza at 165 or 168 was very similar too. Blatantly roided up.

 

I believe Hector was so good he could virtually cruise through the less gifted and less talented, finally dialing in to what the fight game could and was really all about when Rosario got to him. He stated just after their match that he couldn't understand why Rosario kept nailing him or that he was surprised that he wasn't slipping by untouched, hinting that that's what he expected to do going into it. Plus there were lots of outside distractions back then for Hector.

At his best, most focused, he could compete and possibly beat just about anyone....but like I predicted for the Oscar fight, he'll get tagged and recall Rosario, switch into survival mode and lose a decision...when he should have switched to a higher gear and implemented another plan of attack.

 

Take a look at Jones vs. Paz. Looks like two to me.

 

very good post:thumbsup

 

Yeah, that soft look from water retention... Lot of bulky muscle but no striation, or definition.

You can dry out and look great, ripped... Or you can just go "**** it" and come in like Camacho.

 

I am not sure Hector could beat just about anyone. There was a weakness in him which came out with Rosario. Maybe his lack or power or attitude. He was so great at 130, but if he did not have a guy in front of him who was older or had some weakness he did not do very well. A prime good fighter beat him, but an older good fighter he could beat .I am not convinced he was great. But he was very good. Something in my mind limits his greatness. Hector did not have the instincts of a great fighter like a Ray Leonard to sense what he had to do to win a fight, and that is important.

 

Had Ray made the mistake of encountering a young Camacho, (say at 25) even in an over the weight affair 147 vs 140, it would be a mistake.

hector was too fast for him and nearly unhittable as could be seen in the Davis fight. Ray would go the distance in this one but he would lose because of Hector's STYLE

Ray wasnt able to adjust quickly enough or in time for someone like Hector who would stay two steps in front of him.

Guys like Hector, Nunn, and Norris just reacted quicker in fights and would throw Leonard's timing off. Remember: Leonard was not comfortable in the role of aggressor but more of a counterpuncher who preferred his opponent (usually a pre selected flat footed opponent) to come at him.

But against a dominant speedster (Jones, Camacho-those types) Ray foundered in fights. This could be seen as far back as the first Hearns fight once he got on his bicycle. No doubt this would not go unnoticed by Hector the master boxer who was even faster than Ray. Add to the fact that Hector being smaller and offering less to hit, would be much harder to tag later in the fight so a late round tko seems unlikely

 

I agree with you as Hector would be an absolute nightmare for Ray, he'd not look good in this one, He'd look like a man trying to shovel up sand using a sieve & as you said Ray liked to plant his feet & unload those blistering combo's from the counter once he'd slipped the opponants lead, speed & timing from the counter were his forte.

Hector would would sting Ray plenty & often just as Benitez did who also made Ray look ponderous & who had Ray missing with whole 5/6 punch clusters, Hector would be like a wasp & a very frustrating night for Leonard, as i said, he would'nt look good in there with Hector:nono

I recken we could be looking at the speeded up version of DLH/PACMAN