Can a case be made for David Haye as and ATG?

No but he is in The Hall of Toes

 

Haye will be remembered in years to come simply by Toe gate and the double bashing at the hands of a very limited Bomber Bellew.

Any positive legacy was sold for 2 huge helpings of PPV Pie - he made that decision and his reputation is simply eternally damaged.

 

This, he was a better model/money maker than a boxer. He swapped his legacy for pound notes.

 

There’s a fair bit of straw-manning going on in this thread.

The OP raised the question about whether Haye qualifies as an ATG. While the term is never tightly defined, the suggested criteria was someone who was “seriously great” and not just “hall of fame level”.

That is an exceptionally high bar, that most top level fighters are going to fall short of.

Looking at Haye’s record objectively, there isn’t a credible, rational argument that he meets this standard. His record at cruiser is similar to O’Neil Bell, and at heavyweight he didn’t do anything that Chagaev or Ibragimov didn’t do (win an alphabet title and get dominated by Wlad). Adamek’s record both sub-200 and even at heavyweight is arguably better than Haye’s. That’s the kind of fighter Haye ranks with. No disgrace at all, but you rarely see threads raising the question about whether those guys are ATGs.

Acknowledging this isn’t suggesting Haye is a mug, a bum, a fraud, etc. It also isn’t overlooking that he showed flashes of brilliance and that H2H he may well have been better than all of those guys.

Haye packaged himself well, and was able to sell achievements that sounded more meaningful than they actually were; unifying part of the cruiser division, slaying the giant, and picking up a heavyweight belt. When you look beyond the sizzle though, other non-ATGs were beating the same fighters he did.

 

Ducked Fury TWICE and put in one of the most gutless performances by a British fighter abroad in a title fight ever against VLAD. Chisora win is quality. As are Enzo and Mormeck, not much else to go on, the whole Valuev thing was just a circus trick. Could carve out a decent career as a promoter when HEARNS hangs them up / gets sent down in the Epstein investigation.

 

No one is an all-time great, it is literally impossible!


As for Haye's place in history, as mentioned he had an excellent record as modern Cruiserweight, and for what it was worth, he managed to win an alphabet title at Heayweight.


As a British fighter, he will rightly be highly rated, as a Cruiserweight too, he will get a very high rating for the Queensberry Rules era.

 

I think a case can be made for him as an all time great cruiser. Would be surprised if anyone disagreed (that a case couldn't be made I mean?). The question wasn't 'do you see him as an all time great?' (cruiser or otherwise)

 

I hate to say it as a Haye fan, but no
Not quite enough done

Too much smoke and mirrors throughout his career
The Bellew loses, although profitable didnt help his case either

 

Last part is bang on
Two loses to Bellew on his CV still looks crap today

 

Agreed.
Saved me writing anything out...No need now.!

 

Still think haye suffers from trying to be great. Same as guys like hatton. Boxing fans are a confused bunch. Always willing fighters on to take the really big challenges....if they do and fail they really suffer for it when the time comes round to look over their career.

Hatton suffered the same. Both dared to be great hatton taking on 2 p4p champions and haye trying to move up to heavy to take on the dominant much bigger champion. Moving from cruiser to heavys a notoriously difficult thing to do.

Dont think either of them get a fair shske asboth we,re brilliant fighters in their day.

On the other hand calzaghe played it very safe and is rewarded for it.

Both haye snd hatton we,re thought of as great up until their defeats. Almost overnight their judged a lot more harshly....much better to play it safe imo as a boxer.

 

Excellent post.

 

Haye was always hugely exciting and entertaining to watch, ( Klitschko aside ), and could be seen as one of the great Cruiserweights. It's a pity top Cruisers are judged as Heavies because, like Haye, they moved up for the money.
David's win against Mormeck when he was cut and decked and roared back to stop the Frenchman is one of the best away wins by a British Fighter in years.
A British great certainly. A great Cruiser probably but an all time great like Lennox Lewis absolutely not.

 

I rate Haye but he never dared to be great. Did excellently at cruiserweight and promised to light the heavyweight division up but instead faced weak opposition until he put in a very bad performance v Wladimir. The Valuev fight was a boring smash and grab as well which wasn't a convincing performance. The Bellew fights were pure PPV fraud.

He's a British ATG but no way is he an ATG. Is he even a HOF'er? Probably not. The money always meant more than the legacy and he was a great salesman in fairness. The ability was there but the desire to create a legacy wasn't.

 

Na, you could argue the guy he beat and now manages has a better resume despite never being a champ