Can A Case Be Made To Place Duran At #1 P4P All Time?

Great point. What the hell happened to you McGrain to turn you into what you have become?

 

Yes...I'm not very good at putting my thoughts into words but just look at his best performances against other greats or even not so greats. The things he can do in there both defensively and offensively are amazing. Hes a complete package. I have no issues at putting him at #1

 

No bull good stuff McGrain. Roberto would have been sky high more even than Montreal if they fought 3 around March 1981. Leonard knew this-coward or eternity Leonar is for me.

 

A case can be made but not a strong one. Duran is top 5.

No Mas is a factor. He redeemed himself but were talking about #1 all time. He didn't stay in shape consistently during the 2nd half of his career.

 

I personally feel he is a PFP ATG top 10 but not number #1 and the reason for that is the 2nd fight with SRL and his hot and cold performances post SRL......his ATG status should not be denied he was an incredible fighter with ATG skill and power and even when he got towards the end and lost foot speed in the pocket he was still competitive with anyone....what hurt his legacy was not the Hearns fight which did more to boost Hearns than hurt Duran but he fought long past his ability to compete on even ground and its that lasting memory that must be factored in....at his best he is competitive with anyone in history

 

He can't be #1 no. Top 10 absolutely and a case could be pushed for top 5.

 

He did not beat enough great fighters to be rated top 10. He only beat one, and to me Ray was not elite yet. Sort of like Evander when he fought Qawi the first time.

 

Not even close. Leonard was FAR more advanced than Holyfield. He had been brought thru the ranks brilliantly and had a number of wins over contenders behind him as well as his recent win over ATG Wilfred Benitez.

He may not have been peak yet but he had entered his prime and had plenty behind him. The comparison misses the mark significantly.

 

Maybe he was more advanced than Evander against Qawi. I forget how many fights Evander had maybe 14 or 15, but it is a situation I compare. Ray to me improved after Duran in the same way Evander did after Qawi for the first fight. But being brought up the ranks brilliantly is no preparation to fight a Duran, and to fight Duran's fight at that. And he did fight Duran's fight, whether Duran made him or not. Which I think Ray decided to fight like that which was not smart of him. I remember back in 1985 or 1986 there was a fighter I think named Frankie Warren, could be wrong on the name. He was a whirlwind fighter and overwhelmed everyone with activity. He beat up Buddy McGirt when he fought him in normal TV. Then Buddy fought him a couple of years later and turned that around.. Some guys improve when they fight a tough fight, and those are the ones who become more great than someone who does not. To say McGirt or Evander or Ray was the top rated guy they later became would not be accurate. Even Hagler after Vito and the draw.

 

In what ways did Leonard improve after Duran? I'm assuming you can identify technical specifics.

 

I don't think Ray improved technically between those fights. I believe he gained poise. He would never let anyone intimidate him again. In the ring perhaps the confidence that he could survive 15 rounds after almost being knocked down a couple of times.

 

Excellent!

 

I don't think he was consistent enough to be the #1 guy. Certainly he may have had the talent, but not the dedication.

 

Lmao

 

Duran could say shi7 he would be another idiot in the bunch at hw. For his style he would not beat foreman,Ali nor frazier