Can any heavyweight from history realistically beat Tyson Fury?

As of my favorite members here, I'm wondering what your take on those fights is? Did you feel Fury should have been stopped in the first? Do you feel the refeering was lame in any of the fights, etc?

 

You are so right. I have only been on this site for 14 months and I have probably read 20 times the fact that Henry Cooper dropped Muhammad Ali proves that Fighter X would beat Ali

 

Hey Rules,

I think each Fury/Wilder bout provided a new insight into Fury, at Wilder’s expense. This, despite the several knockdowns Fury suffered along the way which, if anything, gave him the opportunity to prove that he had to be nailed to the canvas, in order to stop him.

Overall, I don’t think the refereeing was that bad. In the first bout, Reiss made his call in the 12th and, given how Fury finished the round, it was the right one. Most would agree with that take, I suspect. That Fury finished the stronger, just added to what was already a clear gap in class between the two - but the verdict of a Draw was a bad decision, in my opinion.

Bayless was probably the most questionable ref, in their second meeting - but not awful. It was a very physical fight with Fury now the full-on aggressor and plowing forward, no matter what. I didn’t particularly have a problem with the point deduction from Fury but, by then, the result was an inevitability.

That said, claims that Mora slow-counted Fury after his second KD, in the fourth-round, are what some Wilder fans cling to, which is quite in keeping with a view of the fights collectively. That is, in all 30 rounds they contested, Wilder only ever looked in control, during those relatively fleeting moments, when he scored his knockdowns of Fury. Otherwise, Wilder was just getting mugged.

The bouts showed how ineffective Wilder was in the face of a genuinely world class operator. He just wasn't able to sustain any real impression on Fury. His knockdowns of Fury notwithstanding, Wilder’s level of control over these fights was minimal. What made this all the more stark was the discovery that Wilder had zero quit in him and was able stay in there with Fury, absorbing considerable punishment; perhaps more than needed to be.

 

All great points, but I wanted to outline this one in particular. The fact that Wilder had zero quit in him in any of those fights, even after looking like a hopeless situation during several parts of said fights, put him up above any other heavyweight out there that isn't Fury imo.

Usyk is still at least somewhat unproven at this weight class imo, and he shares that to some extent with both Fury and Wilder: all three need to have another big win (most specifically against either each other or Joshua or Ruiz) to come close to cracking the exalted top 15 ATG status. But both Wilder and Fury at this point stand at the top of the heap at least in terms of Championship Heart and Courage. Those two qualities are absolutely essential in my estimation.

Just my opinions, thanks so much for taking the time to write such an excellent post.

 

Maybe. He sure needed that size advantage against Cunningham, but that's only one fight and it was years ago.

 

Especially in the second, Fury was quite dirty with his grappling tactics, but he was warned and deducted a point. Maybe he could have been deducted one more, but the only thing that would have made a difference is if he was disqualified and I can't see enough reason for that. Not in a pro bout.

Against, Cunningham I would have no issue with a dq, through. He put Cunningham's head in position with one hand and punched with the other. Quite illegal and very deliberate.

 

Lennox Lewis was renowned for that move, Fury probably learned it from him.

 

When did Lewis do it?

 

Louis gets flattened.

Too much size and sauce.

 

John McDermott

 

I think you make very good points and find myself agreeing with them, save for where these guys might end up historically. I am not sure top-15 is realistically within the reach of any of them, given the depth of protagonists in the division's rich past (but I do look forward to those discussions, in future ).

 

I look at the Cunningham fight as a watershed moment for Fury. I suspect his mindset and attitude towards the sport were changing during this time.

Fury was still only 24 when he faced Cunningham. Prior to that, his career had become a bit of a circus and he wasn't, by his own admission, taking it too seriously.

I think the Cunningham bout signified a shift in his outlook. It was his US debut, and was designed to announce his serious intent. But he perhaps had a little hangover from his past with him, and it became a sheer Wake-up Call. Cunningham, despite having been Cruiser moving up, was a significant step-up in class, with real ability and a real chance of defying the odds.

Fury came through it and I would say he has improved greatly, since then.

 

A stiff arming that is used to hold the head in place and even transitions to a bit of a push... Yeah, definitely a dodgy move. Straight from memory I'd have to say that Fury using the other hand to move the head in place was even more flagrant, but Lewis was definitely taking liberties there.

 

Yeah, Fury probably took heart from that experience and has matured as a fighter since then, even though his adaptability and winning instinct already is on full display in the fight.

The technical flaws seems still to be largely the same, though, but he hasn't been faced with that kind of speed and technical ability since then. If he faces Usyk I'm sure he will look at that fight to see what tactical mistakes he should avoid, though