Is there any kind of discussion and or viewpoint that you can think of where Hearn's would be ranked as such? Leonard usually seems to have the nearly consenus nod over him. Hearn's did have 37 more fights then Leonard. He had the most devastating win over another member of the Fab Four within that group. You can argue that he and Leonard are 1-1. A nearly 30 year career, remaining consistent throughout. Great longevity. Consistent quality wins from WW to CW. No dual belt pick ups Leonard style, nor single fights in one weight division or another. Thoughts?
I cant do it and by a margin of a bit over a dozen spots. Ray beat the better version of Duran..less convincingly but still I think the closer to prime version..despite the out of the ring issues Roberto had coming into the rematch. Had the more decisive win over Benitez..I would say the better version aswell. Has his last great performance over Hagler..which is better than probably Tommy's last one against Hill. And at the end of the day Ray has the decisive victory over him at his peak. Its worth discussing though..I think Tommy has more wins over quality opposition but Leonard has a clear edge with the high end victories. If things had worked out a bit differently for Tommy I think you the argument is there...Of course he had held on to the final bell against Ray and won..Plus had got a shot at Roberto, a fight I think stylistically he would have probably had a huge advantage in, I think its a no brainer.
I'll rate this one even mate. Hearns beat Benitez by a lot more than the official scoring showed, given a KD against that was a slip and deducted points among other things. Broken right hand in the mid or mid/late rounds too. Hearns plain outboxed him. Leonard's stoppage was also ****, tho it was a fantastic performance for sure. As was Hearns. Benitez was the 7-5 fave and the consensus among experts was that he had found his niche at 154 after his KO of hope and brilliant schooling of Duran.
The MD doesnt fool me either Johnny..I have seen the fight and it was very clear for Tommy from memory. And the fact that Ray stopped Wilfred makes no difference to me because the stoppage was a bit BS. But maybe WB was already on his slide from the partying and early peaking by the time he fought Tommy. If his results not long after this fight are anything to go by, he could have well been. I just dont think he looked as sharp and was winded at times. A fair few close rounds, didnt make it an easy one to score at times. I just make the distinction that Ray's win was better..Despite a bit of trouble in the mid rounds it was all Leonard and one his best displays overall.
I really did know better but thought i'd post my spiel just on the 1-100 chance you didn't know the full workings. I should have known better. Wilfred's partying and lack of training is talked about but i ignore it. Remember, he supposedly trained just two weeks for SRL so we could just as easily say maybe that made a big diff. Me, i just ignore it. I don't think Benitez was on the slide vs Hearns given his previous effort vs Duran was absolute perfection. I do however believe he lost most of his interest in boxing post Hearns. Hearns long reach, superb jab and potential one punch fight ending power made Benitez look pretty bad IMO. Hard to look sharp against that lot. That's fair enough, i just wanted to point out the Hearns vistory was very impressive and lauded at the time.
I actually think Benitez turned in one of the best defensive prformances ever against Hearns but didn't think he was offensively effective enough to win more than 3 or 4 rounds.
I would say that a good argument can be made in defense of Hearns by someone who knows how to do it, but I would still have to give Leonard the edge. When both men met head to head in their primes, Leonard came out victorious. Hearns obviously deserved the nod in the rematch, but Leonard was approaching his mid 30's, and had fought all but 2 times in 5 years?? Additionally, Ray's win over Marvin Hagler and the overall claim of having beaten all of the other 3 members of the fabulous four placing him above the rest.. Lastly, Hearns was beaten twice by a lesser fighter in Iran Barkley-once coming when he still had a reasonable number of fights left in him.
In my mind, no. Leonard defeated Hearns when it most mattered, and has the better record against the Fab 4. For me, the Hagler fight may be the accomplishment that most solidifies Leonard's place above him. In someone like Rooster's mind, yes. I am not saying that as an insult. Take aside any bias you feel Rooster has towards Leonard. I think he is one of the posters that believes Leonard lost to Hagler. Most people feel that Hearns defeated Leonard in their rematch. If you consider the Hagler fight a loss for Leonard, that Hearns was beating Leonard when he lost the first fight, Hearns and Leonard's rematch a victory for Hearns, Hearns' destruction of Duran, and better performance against Benitez; things are really swung in Hearn's favor. Add to that Hearns' victory over Hill is probably more impressive than Leonard's over Lalonde, and you probably have little problem in doing so.
A fair and balanced view reflecting two possible sides. I for one, feel that Leonard defeated Hagler, albeit marginally, while Hearns was Ko'd in three rounds by him. Granted Hagler was probably a bit better in 1985 than he was in 1987, but you have to figure Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years and was making his middleweight debut, so it evens out. The Barkley losses also take some toll on Hearn's resume as well.. As close as this is, I concur that Ray has the better legacy.
Well, Hearns is a true 5 weight champion while Leonards 5 weight champion tag is really fabricated since "Lalonde Gate". But, since Leonard beat Hearns H2H, Hagler @160, and beat a fresher version of Duran then he deserves the nod.
No, I genuinely don't believe so, not at all. A more interesting question would be who should be ranked higher between Hearns and Hagler.
I agree with everything that's said, but can Leonard's win really be held that highly? It was a close fight with neither fighter landing much of anything, and obviously Duran quit. I think it's obvious Ray was going to win, but I believe Hearns win over Duran was far more impressive. Still rate Ray higher though.