Can I see your MW list? Top 10, 15, 20, whatever?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Mar 2, 2009.


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  1. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Harry Greb
    Carlos Monzon
    Stanley Ketchel
    Marvin Hagler
    Ray Robinson
    Charley Burley
    Holman Williams
    Mike Gibbons
    Bernard Hopkins
    Jake LaMotta
     
    Maxmomer, Mar 2, 2009
    Maxmomer, Mar 2, 2009
    #16
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Lovely list, this.

    What aboug Fitzsimmons and Langford?

    Are you sure Hopkins can be justified above Burley considering the title defences?

    Where is Ketchel, do you think?
     
    McGrain, Mar 2, 2009
    McGrain, Mar 2, 2009
    #17
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ketchel very high here - where do you have Papke?

    No Flowers again - he beat your #1 twice...

    How about Walker? Doesn't do enough to make the 10?
     
    McGrain, Mar 2, 2009
    McGrain, Mar 2, 2009
    #18
  4. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Flowers and Walker could be in there, depending on what time of day I make the list. It's quite hard to narrow it down to ten and even harder to put them in order, so even though they aren't on this list I'd rate them on part with most that are. One problem I have with Walker is that he weight jumped too much and didn't fight consistently as a middleweight for very long. Ketchel is as high on the list as he is because he dominated and KO'd most of his best competition at middleweight, though he and Hagler could switch places on a whim. Papke is top 15-20 for me.
     
    Maxmomer, Mar 2, 2009
    Maxmomer, Mar 2, 2009
    #19
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well I thin that is high for Ketchel, but I understand.

    I think Papke has a case for the 20.

    Nobody needs to feel constricted - 12, 15, 20, 22, all would be welcomed.
     
    McGrain, Mar 2, 2009
    McGrain, Mar 2, 2009
    #20
  6. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    1. Monzon
    2. Greb
    3. Robinson
    4. Hagler
    5. Hopkins
    6. Burley
    7. Ketchel
    8. Tiger
    9. Walker
    10. Williams
    11. Flowers
    12. Charles - I think he should be somewhere around here


    Where does James Toney come in? Undefeated at the weight, wins over Nunn, McCallum, Reggie Johnson, etc.
     
    the cobra, Mar 2, 2009
    the cobra, Mar 2, 2009
    #21
  7. JIm Broughton

    JIm Broughton Active Member Full Member

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    In rough order...... Hagler, Monzon, Greb, Flowers, Burley, Robinson, Walker, Tiger, LaMotta and pick 'em.
     
    JIm Broughton, Mar 2, 2009
    JIm Broughton, Mar 2, 2009
    #22
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  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Middles are tough to peg in order due to the great talent pool of depth. Here's who I want to type in the order today.

    1. Fitzsimmons - Who could take his punch?
    2. Greb - I wish there was some film.
    3. Robinson - His best stuff was at welter.
    4. Hagler
    5. Monzon
    6. Walker
    7. Cerdan
    8. Hopkins
    9. R. Jones
    10. Zale
    11. Burley
    12. Lamotta
    13. Zale
    14. Ryan
    15. K McCoy
    16. J. Clarke
    17. Ketchel - I feel he is over rated.
    18. Gibbons
    19. Flowers
    20. Ray Lenoard.
     
    Mendoza, Mar 2, 2009
    Mendoza, Mar 2, 2009
    #23
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with you that Toney is due consideration. I think this is a good list.

    What abot the old timers? Gibbons, Langford, Fitzsimmons, NP Jack Dempsey? No room for any of these old boys?
     
    McGrain, Mar 3, 2009
    McGrain, Mar 3, 2009
    #24
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Absolutley fascinating list. Some questions.

    Flowers is very low. He beat your #2 twice and was robbed, it seems, versus your #6. Is 19 not a tad to low? I think he is worthy of consideration in any 10. Borderline.

    No Holman Williams? Williams has a better MW resume than many of the guys on this list - is it his losses? Many of these came agaisnt top opposition way, way past prime. I think Williams split decision loss to LaMotta, unpopular in the arena, speaks for, rather than against Williams, too.

    I enjoy your high ranking of Fitz. Not 100% sure that this spot can be justified though. However, what about the man he beat, Demspey? Dempsey put an astonishing string together before succumbing to your #1. To small for the list?

    What about Langford and what he did around this weight? Not enough for inclusion in your eys?

    If you're willing, I'd like to hear a bit about Ryan's high ranking. I rate him aswell.


    No Dick Tiger...this is an oversight?
     
    McGrain, Mar 3, 2009
    McGrain, Mar 3, 2009
    #25
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  11. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    how about gene fullmer..i hardly see him in ATG 100...
     
    asero, Mar 3, 2009
    asero, Mar 3, 2009
    #26
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Flowers was not that good, and he in vs a very deep pool of middles. Limited or no film, a shaky chin, and some so-so results hold him back.

    Williams is another one with no film, and some so-so results. Williams make the cut in my top 25.

    Fitz also beat an undefeated Creedon, and Hall. Who at 160 pounds could take Fitz punch? Fitz Ko'd heavies.

    I consider Sam a light heavy and heavy.

    Ryan had a very good ring record, and was skilled. I might want to move him down a few notches on 2nd thought.


    Nope, I think he too just misses the cut.
     
    Mendoza, Mar 3, 2009
    Mendoza, Mar 3, 2009
    #27
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    What wins do you think Hopkins had at 160 that compare with Lamotta's
    Hairston
    Dauthille
    Mitri
    Dejohn
    Villemain
    Yarosz
    Hudson
    Williams
    Lytell
    SRR
    Basora
    ??????
     
    mcvey, Mar 3, 2009
    mcvey, Mar 3, 2009
    #28
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Lets not forget that Flowers also lost to Greb ,and that their last fight was very debatable.No Tommy Ryan?
     
    mcvey, Mar 3, 2009
    mcvey, Mar 3, 2009
    #29
  15. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    1. Greb
    2. Robinson
    3. Hagler
    4. Monzon
    4. Ketchel
    6. Hopkins
    7. Fitzsimmons
    8. Walker
    9. Burley
    10. Cerdan
    11. Flowers
    12. La Motta
    13. Ryan
    14. Williams
    15. Langford
    16. Zale
    17. Leonard
    18. Jones
    19. Tiger
    20. Dempsey
     
    asero, Mar 3, 2009
    asero, Mar 3, 2009
    #30
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