Can someone explain to me, through his resume, why people call Usyk a top 5 ATG?

Can we just agree that Usyk is comfortably a top 20 ATG HW currently. Let the hyperbole of history decide if he's in the top 10 or 5.

 

I don't think you can have Usyk on any 'credible' top 10 heavyweight list...on a top 10 H2H list? Yes, absolutely, because these are aways subjective, but objectively on merit he can't be top 10 ATG.

 

Polarizing figure - another sign of greatness.

 

Those who do surely do it from how he looks, not his resume, right? Or because they think this era is better than previous.

He's beaten three ranked opponents. Far, far from Ali and Louis, and not close to the likes of Lewis, Holmes and Tyson either. Made two defences of undisputed. Also not a big number. So don't know who says he's there resume wise.

Skill wise, I think there's a case, certainly.

 

I have already commented but I think there is something to be added. DIFFERENT FANS HAVE DIFFERENT CRITERIA, and that is just how it is.

We can all agree...

1. Undefeated

2. First undisputed in 20 years, fifth or so since '79

3. Five heavyweight title defenses--even if he doesn't have a lot of heavyweight fights, he has a good amount at the highest level.

Some other factors some look at (these could be right or wrong in your eyes)

4. His opponents have a much better size/athleticism ratio than fighters in most eras. He's what they used to call a "giant killer," but against very talented champions. His heavyweight opponents dwarf Ali's, for example, who is the same height and has the same reach.

5. Some count his cruiserweight fights. There are those who go on the perceived H2H merit of the opponent. I know about 2/3 don't and I am not arguing the merits here, but realistically, about a third do. Is what it is.

6. If you are not going to count his cruiserweight fights, then you have accept that he basically won the world heavyweight championship in his third significant fight. It's one or the other. Some just give him credit up front for taking on guys much bigger, when he is a natural cruiser.

7. Some count his WSB fights. Again, not arguing the merits, but these were fought with the idea that they were pro fights. I did a poll on this and a surprisingly high percentage count these fights.

8. Some count the amateur fights as part of the legend. Fans in all countries do this, as guys like De La Hoya and Leonard are part creations of their gold medals, but this is very much a European thing. They just don't put the hard distinguishing line between amateur and pro.

9. Perceived H2H, or the "smell test," as some have phrased it here. Has a unique style that thus far, no one has solved.

10. Never been down. That counts the same to some as, say, a good knockout ratio.

11. Road Warrior legend. Fights judges and refs as well as fighters.

12. Political relevance. Guys like Ali and Louis gain a little by being beyond boxing. Usyk served his country in the time of its greatest need, while he was heavyweight champion. Boxing is part narrative, and he is larger than life.

Again, and again, and again- YOU MAY PERSONALLY DISAGREE WITH SOME OR ALL OF THESE...DIFFERENT FANS HAVE THEIR OWN CRITERIA.

I do want to reprint a thought from my other post: it is silly to rate him anything before his career is over. He could lose one, and his stock goes way down. Conversely, Fury and/or Joshua could become a three time champion, and Gassiev could become a pretty good WBA solo champ after Usyk retires, and his stock skyrockets. Let the era play out.

 

If you're counting his cruiserweight wins then he absolutely can be Top 10 all-time. Went and knocked off three undefeated champs in their backyards and snatched their belts, while also fighting other top guys in the division (Hunter, Huck, Mchunu, Bellew).

Being honest though, I more rate Usyk as a P4P all-timer. It's funny people argue his resume is weak when he arguably has the best resume of any boxer in the history of the game when looked at in totality. This man went 335-15 as an amateur while winning European, World, and Olympic Gold. The only guy I can think of off the top of my head that has a better amateur record is Loma. Then Usyk dominates the semi-pro league where he beats up guys much bigger than him like Joyce, Junior Fa, etc. And when I say he dominates, I mean it. I don't know that Usyk lost a single round in any of those fights. Turns pro, becomes champ in his 10th fight, beats the best cruiser era ever and becomes Undisputed in his 15th fight. He ran through that division like **** through a goose! Moves up to HW and becomes the Unified champ in his 3rd fight (19th fight total) and then becomes Undisputed in his 6th fight (22nd fight total).

Do people not understand how insane that all is? And that's not even getting into the details like doing it all on the road, never being knocked down and given a count, always being the B-side and being so good they couldn't rob him, etc. Usyk took what would be a normal stellar pro career, cut out all the filler, just took on tough challenge after tough challenge, and beat the game in record time. And still people are pissing and moaning and trying to downplay his achievements. Like, this dude is our guy! He's our Muhammad Ali! He's the guy who doesn't cherry pick and piddle around and promise the biggest fights while really only being interested in fighting easy guys like a Canelo, Fury, or Mayweather would. He isn't a house cat, either. He'll go to your place, kick the door down, steal your girl, and snatch your titles. That's ultimate badass type behavior when so many fighters won't dare step out of their home city.

It's ok to give this guy his props and rate him where he belongs. Just because he doesn't have 30-40 extra nonsense fights against nobodies on his record like a Foreman or a Holmes doesn't mean he isn't on their level.

 

He is definitely top CW for me. But he doesn't need a load of stocking fillers on his record to be viewed the same at HW, he needs other ATG fighters, and he has none. Now, for reference, I have him much higher than Foreman who doesn't make my top ten either.

Regards size. Tyson spent his career obliterating bigger men. Holyfield was always the smaller B side. Is Haye an ATG because he defeated the biggest HW champ ever? Of course not because we look for quality. And that is what Usyks HW run misses out on.

But...

One can argue the same about Holmes...Tyson...even..Louis? Definitely Wlad. This is the thing about lists, they are as I said earlier subjective. I absolutely have Usyk as one of the top H2H heavyweights ever. But if I have him in my ATG 10 it would be 9 or 10 and I'd have to revise my current list to do that. Unfairly perhaps I have Holmes, Louis, Wlad and Tyson above him. Because its MY top ten...

Great to chat man, peace and love always, Px

 

THIS....
state a bunch of options and then actually believe they are facts. Half these post's come off like trolls accounts meant to be whining and complaining non-stop.

 

Amateur: 2012 Olympic gold medalist, World Championships gold.
Pro debut: 2013, current record 24-0 (15 KOs).
Cruiserweight: Won WSB title 2012; WBO title 2016 vs Krzysztof Glowacki; undisputed champ 2018 (WBSS) vs Murat Gassiev (beating Briedis, Huck earlier).
Heavyweight lineal/IBF: 2020 vs Anthony Joshua (unanimous decision rematch win 2022).
Undisputed HW #1: 2024 split decision vs Tyson Fury (rematch win 2025); 2025 KO vs Daniel Dubois.
Key scalps: Joshua (x2), Fury (x2), Dubois (x2), Gassiev, Briedis, Glowacki.

Top 15 ATG P4P. Best boxer of this millennium so far. Fought and beat the best, in their own backyards, including much bigger fighters.