Can Spence be a greater welter than De La Hoya?

fair call

 

yeah i wasn't thinking beyond oscar's achilles heel.

 

As an old Oscar hater, have to give the guy his dues... he fought about everyone atop the divisions he was in. Sadly we can't say that about anyone anymore nowadays.

 

No, there aren't the number of greats around for Spence to beat that DLH had to deal with.

Amazing list of Tier 1 opponents:

Manny
Floyd
Hopkins
Mosely
Gatti (maybe not great, but popular)
Trinidad
JC Chavez Snr
Hector Camacho
Pernell Whitaker

Even his second tier group is better than most LW's and WW's today:
Jeff Mayweather
Troy Dorsey
Joge Paez
John John Molina
Rafael Ruelas
Gennaro Hernandez

And Spence has...Kell Brook? Mikey Garcia? Danny Garcia? Shawn Porter? Chris Algieri? Not a HOFer among the lot.

 

Camacho may be a big name, but he struggled with an ancient Duran at that point. He was years past relevant. Chavez was well past it in the first fight and shot in the second. Even Whitaker was past his best. And let's not forget that Manny was thought to be way too small when they fought. We know now that he was a killer even at WW, but that wasn't the view at the time.

Even Mikey is better than that version of Camacho and rematch Chavez. Not to mention Brook, Porter and Danny Garcia. Spence would be absolutely savaged around here if he dug up corpses like those.

And even if Oscar should get credit for facing the likes of Mosley and Hopkins, he did lose to them.

 

I wouldn't say that Oscar is a level above. Spence is the better over all fighter. For many years Oscar was seen as a one handed fighter. I will say No based on the fact that im not sure if Spence will ever have the type of names that De la hoya had on his resume, and i'm a huuge Spence fan. But Dela hoya had Whitaker, Quartey, Mosley, Trinidad,Pacman and Floyd....i'm sure i missed a few names as well. I'm not sure if he fought Chavez at 147

 

DLH has the better resume by far, but Mikey Garcia and Shawn Porter will make it to the hall of fame. Lesser fighters have made it. Danny being a two division champion may also make it.

 

It'll be tough.

First there the issue of the level of competition. Most of the top ten now are closer to Oba Carr level or below that level aside from those at the top. And then when you consider those at the top, namely Crawford, I think they fall short of being Trinidad-level. I wouldn't expect Crawford to beat Trinidad, Mosley, or even Quartey on their best forms. I think somebody like Vernon Forrest with his range and size would be a rough stylistic puzzle for Crawford.

Then there is the issue of whether Spence will be able to comfortably make 147 for more than a couple years. In the absence of truly historical competition, a long, dominant reign would help his case in passing up De La Hoya, but I expect him to be fighting at 154 before long. If a Crawford fight happens in late 2021 or 2022, I think he'll move up after.

Ultimately, I think Spence and Crawford are absolutely fantastic and I expect both to leave their mark as standouts of this era. But I don't think either ever really get consideration among the best H2H welterweights who've ever done it. I haven't seen anything so far that indicates Spence is on a level above somebody like Carlos Palomino for example.

 

I agree with most of this, except I'd pick Crawford to outsmart Quartey and Spence over Palomino. In fact, I've never thought about it before but Spence kind of reminds me of a new and improved version of Palomino.

 

Oscar was better.

 

Ask yourself this, Can Spence handle guy's like Camacho, Obb carr Chavez, Whitaker, Quartey Trinidad and put up a better than DLH against prime Mosley??? I don't think so...

 

Of course he can.

If he beats Crawford and Pacquiao he's one of the greatest WW fighters in history.

I'd also like to see him take on Thurman as well, and Taylor when he inevitably moves up.

Anyone, who at this point is saying it's not possible for Spence to overtake Hoya in the WW rankings is deluded.

If the "no votes" are down to balance of probability, fair enough, but it is clearly a possible outcome.

 

He'd absolutely slaughter Camacho and Chavez. Don't understand how they are deemed relevant wins for DLH. Yes, the first Chavez win to a degree, but we're still talking about someone well on the slide.

 

Beating TC would do nothing of the sort, since he himself has a very weak resume at 147. Beating Pac would be a good, but that's about it. Even beating Keith thurman at this point wouldn't be enough to move ESjr passed ODLH at 147.

 

Just like there was nothing ODLH could have done to be ranked a higher Welterweight than Sugar Ray Leonard, there is nothing Errol Spence can do to be ranked a higher Welterweight than ODLH.

It's just a different era with less talent.