Can Sullivan,Corbett,Fitz,Jeffries,& Hart Truly Be Called "World" Champions?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 17, 2019.


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  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Biggest racist, but perhaps not the most convinced of the merits of the color bar.
     
    janitor, Jan 18, 2019
    janitor, Jan 18, 2019
    #46
    BitPlayerVesti likes this.
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Did Rhas Al Guhl post this?lol
     
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    #47
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Ali and Foreman were world champion professional heavyweight boxers.
    Those nations mentioned had boxers who were eligible to become world champion amateur heavyweight champions and they often did so.
    What has ever stopped ,apart from ability any professional boxer from challenging for a world title?
    We are talking about boxers being excluded from challenging for world titles purely on the basis of skin colour.

    You have no argument.
     
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    #48
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes they would Tunney, never fought a black fighter,coincidence?
    Dempsey never fought his number one challenger Wills.Immediately after winning the title he announced he would pay no attention to black challengers a statement he later recanted.

    Willard, Dempsey's predecessor also stated he would not defend against a black man.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    #49
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You're missing the point Corbett,Fitz , Jeffries,and Hart fought black men BEFORE they won the title but none were prepared to risk losing it to one!
     
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    #50
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I have a different take on the matter.

    Sullivan, Corbett and Fitz were all perfectly willing to fight black challengers, they were just deathly afraid of Peter Jackson.

    He was like a colossus who cast a shadow over that period of time.

    Jeffries was a slightly different case, in that he actually believed in the color bar.

    He didn't just refuse to fight the most dangerous black contenders, he refused to fight the so so ones as well.

    Hart was not really around long enough for his position to be tested.
     
    janitor, Jan 18, 2019
    janitor, Jan 18, 2019
    #51
  7. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I was referring more to the fact that only a relative handful of boxers, within any given division, get (or earn) a shot a the world title; this being, theoretically, determined by the rankings.
     
    Man_Machine, Jan 18, 2019
    Man_Machine, Jan 18, 2019
    #52
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  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Your point is taken.
     
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    #53
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Well all of them publicly stated they would never defend against a black challenger.So where does that leave us?
    We have those that refused to fight one because they were afraid of losing to him and the other who refused because of both that and the fact that he didn't have the courage to risk losing to a man of colour.
    Isnt that one and the same thing?
    Sullivan turned down Godfrey and Jackson.
    Corbett turned down Jackson. Fitz turned down Jackson and could have also credibly fought Martin.
    Jeffries turned down Johnson,,and McVey and could have earlier defended against Martin,& Childs.
    Hart wouldn't countenance a rematch against Johnson and never fought another black fighter.
    You can say," well that's the way things were", but that doesn't make it right ,or their claims to being world champions legitimate.
    To infuse your earlier flippant remark about AJ and Breazeale ,[a man AJ beat the **** out of in his 17th fight,] lets say Joshua refused to defend against US heavyweights.Would he still be a legitimate world champion?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 18, 2019
    #54
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I put an asterisk next to every and any white champ. It's the woke thing to do.
     
    Seamus, Jan 18, 2019
    Seamus, Jan 18, 2019
    #55
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Apart from Burns, I think you can reasonably do that until Sharkey and Schmeling appeared.
     
    mcvey, Jan 19, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 19, 2019
    #56
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    That's is a horse of another colour.lol
     
    mcvey, Jan 19, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 19, 2019
    #57
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Dempsey had some Jewish blood ,Baer did not.
     
    mcvey, Jan 19, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 19, 2019
    #58
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As a matter of interest what black fighters did Max Schmeling fight? Taylor, Gains and...?
     
    mattdonnellon, Jan 19, 2019
    mattdonnellon, Jan 19, 2019
    #59
  15. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    But the black contenders still didn't get a shot until Joe Louis.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 19, 2019
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 19, 2019
    #60
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