Can Sullivan,Corbett,Fitz,Jeffries,& Hart Truly Be Called "World" Champions?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 17, 2019.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't think that it has escaped your notice that Corbett entered into negotiations with Peter Jackson at various stages. The inescapable implication of this, is that he was claiming that he would fight Jackson in some circumstances.

    Fitzsimmons fought Black Pearl while he was himself the Middleweight champion, so we have to consider him to be at least luke warm on the color line.

    Jeffries made his enthusiasm for the color line very clear.

    Hart was not around long enough to truly gauge his willingness.
     
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  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    He deserved the match, but it didn't necessarily have to be against Sullivan.

    Let's say that Sullivan and Corbett should have given him a title shot between them, and leave it at that.
     
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  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Jackson's NC with Corbett adds fuel for both sides of that argument. Another tangent is that Goddard with two stoppages of Choynski and a hot draw with Jackson himself probably deserved consideration.

    Going from memory, the title was in limbo for about 3 or 4 years with Sullivan retiring, getting injured, getting sick and unretiring. Then Corbett's inactivity and less than ambitious title defenses held the belt at bay for even longer. At that time Jackson should have gotten a sniff, especially after schooling Slavin.
     
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  4. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Corbett should certainly have fought Jackson, in effect he didn't defend for five years, the Mitchell fight was a joke. Beating Choynski was just local credit was Corbett, the Kilrain win and the Jackson draw brought him to the fore. Slavin was probably see at least an equal threat at this time. Sullivan would not be expected to fight Jackson pre-1888, the win over Godfrey brought Jackson into the picture.
     
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  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Jackson unequivocally deserved a title shot!

    You could argue that Sullivan fought the guy who drew against Jackson (Corbett), and therefore answered the call, albeit belatedly.

    Corbett obviously disgraced the title with his inactivity.

    When he was finally ready to defended his title, the argument seems to have come down to whether he should fight Jackson or Fitzsimmons.

    Some times it came down to the fact that there was a very strong black contender, and an equally/nearly as strong white contender.

    Not that this made it any better for the black contender!
     
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  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I think we are pretty much in agreement here. Jackson and Corbett (I think to a slightly lesser extent) were the obvious deserving contenders. Again, I would add Goddard for a short window. Slavin would have been considered, also, but Jackson took care of him. One wonders if Jackson would have been considered in any time after Corbett's title winning victory if he himself had remained more active. But for all intents and purposes Jackson retired at that point and the booze took over.
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Joseph Louis Barrow x2
    The only ranked black heavyweight when Max was either ranked or champ was Godfrey ,and I believe he was only ranked in 29 &30 and never in the top 2?
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Bahahaha???? Baer was not circumcised.
    According to Jewish law children born of one Jewish parent take their race/heritage from their Mother. Max Baer's Mother was Dora Bales she was Scots/Irish Protestant. Jacob Baer's father was half German Lutheran and half German Jew.By Jewish definition Baer was a Gentile .
    I was married to a Jew for 25 years.

    Judaism Passed Through the Mother - JewishAnswers.org
    www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-category/the-basics...
    • If a child’s mother is Jewish and their father is not, they are Jewish. There is no way for that child to ever convert out of Judaism. That is impossible. If a person is a Jew, they die a Jew.
    https://reformjudaism.org/practice/ask-rabbi/i-have-jewish-mother-and-christian-father-what-am-i
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    We are not concerned with black fighters any white champion may have fought before they won the title,that is irrelevant!
    Fitz could have defended against Jackson , instead he went into print stating he would not fight him because he was black.He could have also fought Denver Ed Martin.
    Your impression of Corbett vis a vis a Jackson rematch for the title is totally at odds with Pollack's.
    I'll take Adam's exhaustive research over your bigoted hatred every day of the week and twice on Sundays!
    ps Jackson had a sprained ankle when he fought Corbett and nobody won that fight.

    Jeffries never defended his title against a black man and many ,many times stated he would retire before doing so.
    Jeffries was a challenger when he fought Johnson, as he publicly stated he would never take a chance on losing his title to a black man. Jeffries fought an alcoholic,37 years old tubercular wreck of Jackson in March 1898 ,Jackson had not fought since Nov1892! Tom Sharkey, no lover of black men said," Jackson is a shell I would be ashamed to fight him."
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Hopefully one of them will be drowning yourself?
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    They all made public statements that they would not defend the HEAVYWEIGHT title against black men. Corbett would not go near a re-match with Jackson instead he fought little Charley Mitchell in a mis match apart from being a thorough going ****, Corbett was a fraud as champion.imo
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Your turn in the barrel!
     
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  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    We had Godfrey ranked during that period 1929[3] and 1930 [5],Gains ranked 1932[9],Trammel 1936[4] Haynes [7] Braddock was champ and he defended against the number 2 contender Louis.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There I would have to disagree.

    However bad a champion Corbett was, he did beat Sullivan to get the title, and he did draw against Peter Jackson to get the title shot.

    It seems to be a very uncontroversial title claim, and a very uncontroversial title shot to me.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm referring to his reign, not his title acquisition.