Can Sullivan,Corbett,Fitz,Jeffries,& Hart Truly Be Called "World" Champions?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 17, 2019.


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  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    In the second Sharkey was winning, but I think Corbett was doing worse early, and was coming back into it when it was stopped, though to be clear Corbett doesn't seem to have had an advantage.

    The ending was total bull****, it was one of Corbett's seconds intentionally making him lose to win bets, which honestly makes me wonder if it should be on his record. I dunno, it's a thorny issue, should known fixes be on a fighters record?

    That's atleast as I remember it from the reports I've seen.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019
    #121
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Ray Arcel said he wasn't Jewish and he should know,being not only Jewish himself, but Baer's trainer.
    One of your parents being half Jewish ,and that parent being the paternal line does not qualify as being Jewish according to Jewish Torah law.No point in trying to explain that to that cretin Mendozy.
     
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    #122
  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Like so many Sharkey fights there seems to have been all sorts of fouling and foul play so who knows .. the newspaper reports seem to be all over the place based on what happened ..
     
    he grant, Jan 21, 2019
    he grant, Jan 21, 2019
    #123
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  4. sauhund II

    sauhund II Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Is that directed at me ?
     
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    #124
  5. sauhund II

    sauhund II Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You are much more versed with those Oldtimers than me....but I am more interested in the fighting aspect, not race or Politics.

    So prime vs prime., Jeffries vs Johnson, lets say around 1905 or so, putting race aside, who is your pick over 25 and how would you guess it would unfold . A washed up Jeffries lasted around 15 so it would be interesting how a in shape prime Jeffries does in your opinion.
     
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    #125
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson asked for a title fight,not for an unpaid brawl in a cellar .CLOWN!
     
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    #126
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The fact that Jeffries lasted 15 rounds doesn't mean much imo. Johnson was a cautious performer and he clearly was enjoying paying Jeffries back for not giving him a title shot years earlier , and for all the insults he had heaped upon him."I was having fun in there".
    I think Johnson could have finished things earlier had he chosen to,and one of Jeffries biggest boosters Fitzsimmons,sitting ringside said," Johnson could have ended it whenever he chose."


    1905 onwards? Johnson.
    Johnson matched Jeffries for strength,at one point clamping his arms to his sides and walking him backwards to his own corner,all the while talking to Jim Corbett seated there,"where do you want me to put him Mister Corbett?
    Jeffries couldn't hope to compete with Johnson for skill or defence,he relied on toughness and durability,which was fine when he was facing smaller older men,against a 208lbs,skilled man in his prime,he was encountering something entirely outside of his experience.
     
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    #127
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    No mate,Mendoza who is clearly intent on turning this into a" lets dump on Johnson "thread.He has this sad ,and irrational,fixation with him.
     
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    #128
  9. sauhund II

    sauhund II Boxing Addict Full Member

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    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    #129
  10. sauhund II

    sauhund II Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks, so in your opinion Johnson has Jeffries number no matter when they fight or is there a time when Jeffries could precail ?
     
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    #130
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Prior to 1905 Jeffries would probably have won.Johnson was a late developer and took time to come into his full strength and maturity.Prime 4 prime it would be an excellent fight, but my pick would be Jack .Plenty of others would say the opposite.
     
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    #131
  12. sauhund II

    sauhund II Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree, a fully developed Johnson would be too much and it would need a fighter of similar technical abilities /Ring IQ caliber to trouble him.

    Out of curiosity , going further ahead, who , in your opinion beat or could beat a prime Johnson , lets go up to the 30's, Dempsey, Tunney, Schmeling, Louis .Baer etc etc
     
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    sauhund II, Jan 21, 2019
    #132
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    To be frank, I don't think any of them beat him. Dempsey is my favourite but I think Johnson had the ability to tie him up and frustrate him.Louis is as near the complete heavyweight as there has been imo, but I think Johnson would outsmart him and Dempsey take him out early. The majority would say I am way off I expect, but that's my opinion ,for whatever its worth.
     
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    #133
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  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Nat Fleisher would have agreed with you.
     
    janitor, Jan 21, 2019
    janitor, Jan 21, 2019
    #134
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    But not on Muhammad Ali ,whom I rate as the numero uno!
     
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 21, 2019
    #135
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