So the recent Crawford thread got me thinking about this, achievement wise Crawford has the credentials of an ATG but resume wise he doesn't. So do you have to beat a great fighter to be considered an ATG ? I made a point before that Larry Holmes never truly beat a great fighter, i don't the count Ali win BTW. But yet he's considered a top 5 ATG Heavyweight based on his title defences, great fights he had, and his consistent winning performances over world class fighters. Others consider Gennady Golovkin an ATG based on his title defences, but again he never officially beat a great fighter. Khaosai Galaxy is another example. What's your thoughts ?
No Did Holmes run around claiming he was the next coming of Jesus even having a parade after beating a drained shot to pieces opponent?
This is true. The reality is to be a true great you need competition. The Fab Four are a good example of this. Great fighters in their own rights, but elevated due to their resume
You have to beat a great to become a great. That is why there has never been a first, second or third great fighter. Great fighters started with the fourth great fighter, as it's a rule of fours. Every fourth great fighter gets kind of a lucky dog pass. That's science.
I do think, based on accomplishments, a fighter can be an all-time great and that you can be an all-time great without beating another great fighter. Not every ATG is created equal and not every one of them is going to be Ray Robinson, Ezzard Charles or Muhammad Ali. Crawford, Holmes and Galaxy are men who have somewhat lacking resumes but their accomplishments are deep enough to make them lower tier all time greats.
Longevity, consistency, and fighting the best there is available also counts. Maybe count more than a single win over a great. Those three things can make up for a missing win over another great. Lots of not great fighters have wins over great fighters, but they were not consistent, so we don't consider the great. Some fighters are consistent, but they avoided the best challenges. They fall short of greatness too.
It depends. If there are greats in or around your divisions while you reign and you don't fight them, then your greatness is called into question. If you dominated everyone you face when fighting the best competition, how can any other fighter be great?
IMO this answers the question: Can You Be An ATG Without Beating A Great Fighter? If Vitali is ATG - then one can be ATG without beating a great fighter.
For sure, beating everyone in or around the weight class. Weight jumping etc etc. Dominating your opponents, winning as an underdog. Look at someone like Froch. Easily in the HOF, but he didn't really beat any HOF'er..but he won a lot as the underdog.
