Can you call Dariusz Michalczewski a borderline atg?

Sure why not

 

He doesn’t have the names on his ledger that will make anyone think of him as an ATG. Not from an American perspective. But he made 24 title defenses and has some solid wins, Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin, Roccichigani, etc.
Definitely a tough nights work for anyone and a deserved HOF person. ATG incomplete lack of big fights the reason.

 

The first Roccichigani fight was pure robbery. If I believe I think DM improved as a boxer once he became champion.
He had one of the best left jabs ive ever seen- kinda like a Quartey type jab and he had an uncanny way of timing it so his opponent walked into it. Never imagined DM being able to outjab Hill but he did just that.
Pretty underrated and you could have an arguement about the HOF.

 

I just think ATG is a very high standard. and his resume does not meet that standard.Again as I said before and as many now have agreed he has a case for HOF

 

Yes. He's a borderline HOF. He's on a ballot, but coming up short thus far. Nowhere near ATG.

Hill was good win, but other than that Michalczewski really wasn't fighting high caliber contenders.

 

He might be a borderline case which is what the author of the thread was asking

 

The Rocchigiani, Griffin and Hill wins are good.But he also has losses against Rochigiani, Tiozzo and Gonzales.The Hall stoppage was very dubious. Other than that he fought lots of WBO bums. He fought exclusively in protected Germany where he had a lot of unfair advantages.

 

Yeah I’m basically agreeing with that assessment. To me he’s hof but just shy of atg

 

With guys like Michalczewski I always just think if I see him beating someone I consider an ATG at his weight. I simply can't see him beating peak Roy Jones, Michael Spinks or Bob Foster. He may do well and not saying he wouldn't have a chance but as with Virgil Hill I think he is very very good but the next step to defeat a peak ATG would be too much for him. I think Hill is also one of the best examples of the difference between very very good and great vs Hearns (and lets face it Tommy wasn't peak when he won against Virgil). Still HOF worthy of course and an excellent champ.

 

Hearns fought a better version of Hill than DM

 

NO.

 

For sure, great win for Tommy!

 

I will add that the ATG tag for Dariusz maybe well be applied by German or Polish fans. I think whether a champ is considered an ATG probably varies between their homelands and the rest of the world! For example I am sure many Brits consider Joe Calzaghe at ATG, but of course in US this is far from the case! Also the USA is such a big country it has a long history of champs and long time belt holders while in EU this is less frequent so perspectives are different.

I am not saying EU fans are uncritical, far from it, but in UK Lloyd Honeyghan is probably rated much more highly that in US simply because he went to the States and won the undisputed championship from a Yank. While it may not mean much in US I think it means a lot for a UK fighter to do this and maybe leads to slight overrating (although I don't think us Brits think of Lloyd as an ATG). Same as if a UK fighter defends many times, as it is comparatively rare compared to US or Mexican fighters. For a long time Jim Watt was UK record holder for defences, 4 I believe. So I would not be surprised if Dariusz is considered an ATG in different parts of the world, if not on this forum!

 

How can someone like DM not be an ATG but Muhammad Ali is considered the GOAT by so many people? I mean, WTF? You can pick on both of their resumes but clearly DM is an ATG.

 

I don't consider Ali the p4p GOAT, but if we rephrase your question as - "why do people rank Ali substantially higher than DM from an historical standpoint" - then the answer begins, because Ali won 5 fights vs boxers typically ranked in or immediately around the top 10 of all time in the division in which he competed, whereas DM won 0.

If we extended that to wins against fighters top 50 or top 100 all time, the discrepency between the two increases.