Can you justify putting Floyd Mayweather Jr in a top 10 ATG list?

That's pretty close to my views on him as well. I have way more respect for someone like Duran than I do for Mayweather, regardless of their records.

 

Not yet, though I don't think he's as far removed from that placing as some of his detractors might think. Tough to deny him a place in the top 25 now...and depending on how Alvarez and Cotto continue to perform, a placing within the top 15-20 is well within the realm of possibility.

As a quick note, I also don't think the earlier incarnation of Mayweather was nearly as negative as he's became as he aged and went up in weight. If Hopkins is lauded for changing his style and maintaining his longevity, then Mayweather should be as well.

 

I don't know what the media ran with or why. You might know more about it than I do. I don't follow the soap opera. I don't care.

I'm of the belief that the fight was going ahead until Mayweather insisted on "Olympic style drugs testing". That's when Pacquiao walked away.

Anyway, it's largely irrelevant. Pacquiao in 2015 isn't a great scalp, that's the main point, always will be. It's interesting that people act as if the win was huge like it would have been 2010. It is nowhere near. Boxing fans are fickle.

 

I'm not making excuses for Pacquiao. He lost.
I feel like everyone else here has slipped into some strange time warp when the fight was made, and suddenly forgot how late it is, and how irrelevant the fight became in pure sporting sense.

No, Mayweather is not prime either. Nowhere near.

Foreman and Holmes aren't prime either.

 

Leonard can't make the top 10.

 

The mark on him for me is the first Castillo fight. Otherwise he's been almost as dominant as Roy Jones but over better opponents, so top 10... Not inconceivable.

Haven't watched his fight with Pac since I watched it live, but then it wasn't a conclusive win for me. If I feel it is when I watch it again (will perhaps watch that slow-mo version), I won't feel top 10 is far fetched at all. Pac was declined, sure, but still very good and Floyd had passed his best as well.

 

Being the consensus best fighter in the world? yes I'd say so. Has any other man in history held this claim at that age?

You don't seem to take any seriously which counters your argument.

I

That's how p4p lists work and yes I believe that a smaller fighter can be ranked higher than a bigger one if he's accomplished more.

There are men who outrank him and rightfully so. But that list is growing smaller each year. Winning titles in five weight classes, beating some 30 ranked opponents, having around 25 world title fight wins and beating a handful of hall of fame men seemed like enough to rate men highly in the past.. I don't see why it does nothing for Floyd.

Nobody thought either of these men were prime. Not even the casual fans.. But they were still two of the best fighters in the world.. Hagler and Leonard weren't prime when they met each other and nor were Ali and Frazier for their rubber match.. Those fights still held historical significance. Pac had just beaten Tim Bradley. Floyd was still ranked #1.. no matter how you slice it was still a huge win.

Just because you didn't enjoy the affair doesn't devalue its importance.

You stated earlier that a fighter's earnings meant nothing to you when evaluating them.. Let's try and keep that consistent.

 

This post should be made a sticky thread of its own.

 

He's not? atsch

So, you're expecting him to mostly lose to name fighters from here on out?

I don't agree. Pacquaio lost the same way nearly everyone who has fought Mayweather has lost. People expected more from him. (Myself included.) We didn't get much. But that fight played out pretty much like all Mayweather fights do.

The credit goes to him. Like Cotto, Alvarez, etc., I expect Pacquaio will return to the ring looking like Pacquiao when he isn't fighting Mayweather.

 

Name me ONE ATG that Floyd beat in their prime. Just one.

 

Lol! Who are the four? And in no way, shape or form do they compare to Hearns, Duran and Hagler!

 

His career, and the careers of his opponents aren't finished yet, but, if you want one, I can see the win over Alvarez being viewed that way (since Canela is on that path) and I can see the win over Cotto being viewed that way (since Cotto is on that path as well). And we'll see who he fights to round out his career.

Many guys in the Hall beat other ATGs, but not necessarily in their primes.

How many wins over ATGs in their primes did Pernell Whitaker have? Zero? How many did Dempsey have? Zero?

But, in answer to your question, Mayweather beating Alvarez (who already had six successful title defenses under his belt entering that fight) is going to jump out of his resume should Alvarez add the lineal middleweight title to his resume this fall.

 

Yes, beating Pacquiao doesn't compare to Roberto quitting because he had to go poo.

And beating Gernaro Hernandez (HOFer who was coming off a win over Azumah Nelson the previous year) to a pulp doesn't compare to edging an old Hagler (in a fight most thought Leonard lost) ... but I can see your point.

No, maybe I can't.

 

I have all the respect in the world for Ray Leonard and am one of the supporters who agree that he earned his greatness. But it's also mind boggling that he didn't have to go through a 20 year career consisting of 25 world title fights, belts in 5 weight classes and wins over numerous ranked opponents while maintaining a perfect undefeated record to get the larger than life recognition that he's gotten.. Not saying he doesn't deserve it... But why doesn't Floyd get the same respect? Just doesn't make sense.

 

They both deserve respect. Leonard's probably regarded a bit more highly because he conquered better fighters.

Leonard had "belts in 5 weight classes" too, for what it's worth.

Mayweather gets TONS of respect.
The champion of our era who doesn't get his dues is Wladimir Klitschko.
In fact, when Mayweather's success and status is discussed in the media, there's often snide remarks about the "awful heavyweights".