Can you justify putting Floyd Mayweather Jr in a top 10 ATG list?

And who the f--k has those guys in the top 10 p4p ATGs ?

 

And nobody in their right mind is calling them the best ever.

 

Floyd doesn't hold all the belts at WW, and hasn't for ages.

 

Yeah, they should be in the HOF based on their quality over their entire careers.
Still, beating four deserving HOFers, two or three of which clearly past prime, is not necessarily an exclusively "top 10 ATG" kind of accomplishment.

People seem to be arguing on this thread that Mayweather Jr, is a great fighter, which I think everyone agrees with.
I don't see any good arguments being advanced as to how he could make the top 10 of all-time though.

 

:good:good

 

There's a watertight argument that his resume simply isn't up to snuff, even by modern estimations. There's concurrently a middling to strong argument that he numbers among the ten hardest men to beat inside a 20-foot square. I think he stands alone at his prime weight of 130 pounds. Arguello and Chavez come close, but I'd have to look north to find someone to surpass him outright.

 

Yes, Floyd clearly rates above Ross, Chavez, Benny Leonard, Arguello the guys from his weight classes. Whitaker I'm not so sure, he has longevity and dominance over Whitaker though. The same with Duran, he has a deeper resume than Duran, better longevity, more dominance.

And Winky/Shaw are actually the ones who walked away from it.....

Wright-Mayweather bout is off as talks break down

It's back to the drawing board for St. Petersburg's Winky Wright as negotiations to fight 140-pound champion Floyd Mayweather fell apart Thursday morning at a meeting in Las Vegas.

"As of right now, it's no deal - they changed the money on me at the last second," said promoter Gary Shaw, who said he was close to finalizing the fight when he walked into Top Rank and Bob Arum's office Thursday.

But within seconds, he said, the deal evaporated.

"I walked in, I told him: "I believe we have a deal,' " Shaw said. "And Bob said, "so it's a deal - 55-45 (money split)'.

"I said, "Bob, that was never, ever discussed, no deal' and that was that."

The day before, Shaw said he and Arum had agreed to a 50-50 purse split as well as other requests from Mayweather's camp. He added that Wright adviser Jim Wilkes and Don King, who has an option on Wright's next fight, agreed as well.

According to Shaw, however, Arum said he did not remember that conversation. Arum was unavailable for comment.

Shaw and Arum were in Las Vegas to promote the Oct. 8 rematch between Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo. Shaw promotes Corrales; Arum promotes Castillo.

"There were requests made by Floyd Mayweather, we laid it out and I think they were fair requests," Arum told maxboxing.com. "Gary rejected them, so there's no fight. We have to sit with Floyd and we'll figure out (what we do next). Maybe (Antonio) Margarito. It's unfortunate as far as the Winky Wright fight, but it's not going to happen."

While Shaw said he agreed with just about all of the demands from the Mayweather team, principally regarding weight, he doesn't think the Detroit fighter, aformer Olympian, was behind the breakdown.

"I think it's Arum," Shaw said. "When Floyd normally calls someone out, he's serious about fighting them."

Mayweather, one of the sport's most vocal stars, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal Sunday that he was interested in fighting Wright, and Shaw wasted no time calling his bluff.

The next morning, he was in the Top Rank offices working on a deal.

"Remember, Floyd called Winky out; Winky didn't call Floyd out," Shaw said. "We were even willing to come down in weight to 154."

Because Wright, who prefers to fight at 160, could probably put on as many as 15 pounds between the weigh-in (the day before) and the fight and enter the ring as high as 165-170, Mayweather's camp requested a morning-of-the-fight weigh-in. That included a stipulation that Wright couldn't go more than eight pounds above the limit.

The undefeated Mayweather, who started his career at 130 and weighs 140 pounds, would be at a significant size disadvantage for the fight.

Wright (49-3, 25 knockouts) is still scheduled to fight Nov. 19 on HBO, provided Shaw can find a suitable opponent in the sp**** middleweight field.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/22/Sp...ther_bou.shtml


Split of prize money holding up bout

Promoters Gary Shaw and Bob Arum were in Beverly Hills on Thursday afternoon to officially announce the Oct. 8 rematch between Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo.

But as that deal was finalized, a proposed Nov. 12 bout between Winky Wright and Floyd Mayweather fell apart as the two met at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

"M-O-N-E-Y," stated Shaw in spelling out the reason why this bout between two of the premier prizefighters in the world will not be taking place. "I thought we had a deal. I spoke with Don King, King was on board, Jim Wilkes was on board, Winky Wright was on board. We agreed to 154 pounds, we agreed to another morning weight because they were concerned about the weight -- Winky couldn't gain more than eight pounds above 154."

With all of Winky's representatives (including King, who holds an option on Wright after his victory over Felix Trinidad in May) in agreement, Shaw thought he would be signing contracts by the end of the week.

"When I was in Arum's office he talked about different splits," recalled Shaw, who said at that time the numbers he was told differed from the ones he had agreed to. "I started to yell, I said, 'It's gotta be 50-50.' He said, 'All right, all right. Why are you yelling? I'm just the messenger. Come back, we'll do the deal.' I walked downstairs here at the Beverly Hills Hotel, I said, 'We have a deal?' He looked at me and said, '55-45.' I said, 'No, 50-50. He said, 'There's no deal.' "

Arum confirmed that Wright-Mayweather is dead as of now.

"There were requests made by Floyd Mayweather, we laid it out and I think they were fair requests," said the veteran promoter. "Gary rejected them, so there's no fight. We have to sit with Floyd and we'll figure out [what we do next].

"Maybe [Antonio] Margarito. It's unfortunate as far as the Winky Wright fight, but it's not going to happen."

While Mayweather retains his Nov. 12 date on HBO Pay-Per-View, Wright has a date set aside for him the following week on HBO.

Did Mayweather and Arum come to the realization that in facing the much bigger Wright, that they were biting off more than even the "Pretty Boy" could chew?

"Floyd's been talking a lot of trash, saying he's going to knock Winky out; he told Kevin Iole he wants to fight," said Shaw. "He wanted the fight on Sunday. On Monday I went to Top Rank's office personally. My feeling is that Floyd never wanted the fight. He was just talking smack."

As Shaw and Arum gave their sides of the story after the Corrales-Castillo press conference, just outside the ballroom where it was held, Margarito's manager Sergio Diaz was meeting with Top Rank's VP, Todd DuBoef, about his fighter's future -- which doesn't seem to include Mayweather.

"Right now we just met with Todd and we're looking at October 1st," he explained to MaxBoxing. "The date is there, the opponent we still don't know. They've been mentioning Joshua Clottey, but Showtime doesn't know if they want to accept that opponent."

As for a bout with Mayweather?

"Mayweather has mentioned that he'd rather jump to 154 and fight Winky Wright than fight Margarito," Diaz said. "He says it's a better loss to lose against Winky Wright than it is to Antonio."

Diaz doesn't have much hope that even with the Wright fight not happening, that a bout between Margarito and Mayweather comes to fruition.

"No, not at all," he admitted. "To tell you the truth, at the beginning I was, we were hopeful it would happen. But now, it's already behind me."

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2113721

 

He holds three of the four belts, and has held all 4 WW belts at different points, without ever losing any of them in the ring. Along with lineal and RING recognition, that's as close to undisputed as you're ever going to get these days.

 

Try and keep up.

Heres the post i was replying to.

Which is why i said Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Wladmir never beat an ATG in his prime either yet they make up alot of the top heavyweights of all time.

 

"Avoided?" When did Mayweather "avoid" Paul Williams?

Williams was in the welterweight title picture for a grand total of 11 months. During that time, he couldn't even manage to successfully defend his title even once.

Williams outpointed Margarito in July 2007, then Williams lost his first title defense to Carlos Quintana in February 2008. Four months later, he won the title back from Quintana ... and then he was gone.

Literally gone from the division. By September, he'd moved back up to junior middleweight.

Miguel Cotto, Zab Judah and Shane Mosley were far more thought of than Paul Williams was at welterweight ... especially after Williams lost to Quintana.

But Floyd doesn't fight Paul Williams because Williams couldn't make one defense without losing his belt ... and now Floyd is avoiding him?

I don't even like Floyd Mayweather. And I believe Paul Williams is an inspiration. I've never seen someone become paralyzed and handle it so well.

That said, anyone who thinks it's Floyd Mayweather's fault or it's a negative on him that he didn't fight Paul Williams is out of their mind.

If Paul Williams could've successfully defended a title ... any title ... once, or even stuck around for a year, maybe they would've fought.

As it was, he held a welterweight strap for a little over six months before losing it.

If you're just flagging Williams because he's tall, you're barking up the wrong tree. There are far better welterweights competing right now than Paul Williams ever was (Thurman and Brook included).

 

Williams was tall, but he never fought tall.

 

You can give him the thumbs up all you want.

We're still waiting for you to tell us who this 'Genaro' was that Floyd fought instead of Margarito in the 07-09 period.

:good

Just to remind you.

 

Ok.
Floyd Mayweather isn't a heavyweight, so it's irrelevant.
Regarding the theme of this thread, we can either rate him in his own weight classes or try to rate him against everyone on the "pound for pound" basis.

If he's comparable to Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Wladimir that's not particularly high p4p.

 

I used heavyweights as that was the first thing that came into my head.

He beat the best fighters of his era. To me that is a sign of greatness. Where he ranks is upto the people. I have him ranked highly and i dont see to many beating him. Hes in an exclusive club at WW which includes the creme de la creme in my opinion.

Regarding Pacqiauo, they could have fight ten times over the past 5 years, Floyd would win every single time.

 

He's a great fighter yes. I doubt he's top 10 at WW all-time. He's probably top 10, or even top 5 at 130 pounds, which is so crammed historically.