Can you make a case that Wladimir Klitschko is a par with Sonny Liston?

The 1930 U.S. Census is out. Charles Liston wasn't born yet in 1930 in the household of Tobin Liston. It is documented.

 

So Liston really was only 31 years old against Ali?

Are there any explanations for why he looked so much older?

People with such dark pigmentation generally age a lot slower than lighter skinned counterparts.

 

He doesn't appear on the census. It's not proof that he wasn't born.
What if he doesn't appear on the 1940 census either ?
Are you going to conclude he was born after 1940 ?

 

Wlad is the heavyweight Sam Serrano...long tedious safety-first reign, unspectacular skills, good physical ability and embarassing KO losses.

 

It is certainly evidence that he wasn't born. And it is pretty strong evidence at that. Keep in mind that the whole household is accounted for -except for the Liston children who weren't born yet.

The chances are excellent that he will be on the 1940 census and then we will have a clearer estimate of his age. For now, yes, he seems to have been more honest than not about his age.

 

Do you know any alcoholics?

 

Good point, i know a alcoholic guy who aged fast, he's nearly 50, but looks more like 65.

 

It's some sort of evidence, but until we have something about the man himself then it's not "resolved" at all. We shall see on the 1940 census. If he's missing from both, the 1930 "evidence" becomes null and void.

How do you know so much about the Liston family to compare against the census info anyway ?

 

I'd say that the question of whether he was pushing 40 when he faced Clay has been damn near resolved.

There is enough about the Liston's to find them on the census. Sonny's father's name was "Tobe." We know that he was born in Johnson Township in St. Francis County in Arkansas and that his mom's name was Helen. He had siblings named Annie, Alcora, and Curtis among several others.

Sonny said he was born in 1929, 1933, and settled on 1932. Mom settled on the same year. Both Mom and Sonny agreed that Curtis was older...

Now, there is a Tobin Liston listed on this census -with Helen as his wife in the spot she identified as where Sonny was born -Johnson Township, St. Francis County, Arkansas. Annie, Alcora, and Curtis are listed there too. Curtis is 6 months old in April 1930. No child named Charles is in the household.

 

:good

 

I believe Liston was better than Wlad by a long shot. How do you compare the two based on how Liston came through the sport and how Wlad did? I dont think Wlad would ever be known if he went through what Liston went through during his life and career as a boxer.

 

Facing the same competition of Liston, would you not say Wlad would've went undefeated until facing Clay in '64? :think

 

Its very hard for me to compare competition with guys that are considered elite and have a 60 pound weight advantage. I would not expect Wlad with his style to be as successful against his competition if he had as many demons and outside distractions.

 

I think you're selling Wlad's mental resolve and professionalism well short here. How many champions lose their edge once they became champ, or stay champ for a couple of years? How many came back from people thinking they were finished at the top level to dominate for years? If anything, that Wlad was able to do what most fighters couldn't makes me more confident he'd have handled himself well in that regard in any era.

 

Is that how we measure how great fighters are ?

In that case, all the really old-timers like Dempsey, Ketchel, Langford, Johnson, hobos etc. were greater than the likes of Muhammad Ali and other Olympic golden boys.