canelo alvarez looking smaller already!?!?

Lol Isal it sucks either way doesn’t it?have you no sense of sportsmanship at all cause what on earths the point in even watching him when you know how heavily things are stacked in his favour?
I reckon he’s good enough without any help don’t you?

 

So basically you're not up for serious discussion, because clearly you understood my point. But imcase you didn't let me explain.

As a judge it is very possible to score a fight completely different than your colleague. That is why there are 3 judges. Have you not EVER scored a fight one way, to rematch it and get another score or winner? I think every hardcore boxing fan has.

Boxing is scored using 4 factors. Clean hard punching, defense, effective aggression, and ring generalship. No where does it say more punches thrown or landed.

If your up for a serious discussion, tell me if yoi disagree with anything in my post.

 

No one is forcing you to watch him. But not everyone thinks like you.

Against GGG how were things heavily stacked in his favor?

 

Sure I'll discuss it. Your position is that it was a judge saw it differently OR inept judging. My position is a judge was bought OR inept judging. So I am pointing out we agree. That inept judging is possible.

So if we both agree that inept judging can be the factor, then how can that card be defended given the fact it was such a wide card then all the others, assigned judges and news outlets? I have admitted it was a close fight. I have admitted it could have been scored 7-5 either way. But in order to score that fight 10-2 for either fighter I believe the judge is inept OR looking to give rounds to a fighter.

So it is also your position that this same two factors, inept judging OR a different perspectives would explain the 4 other big fights?

While we are having a serious discussion, let's explore the 2 failed test.

The only reasonable 2 reasons are the meat story, or he was using. I think he was using. I can't prove it. But to believe the meat story you have to believe the following:
That an elite level athlete with resource far and above any other fighter. With one of the most powerful promoters in the business. Whose trainers were in the meat business. Who lives in a country with a known meat problem to allow him to eat meat not knowing the source? If after all that, you still believe the meat story then someone, or the entire team mist be the dumbest boxing team on the planet to have allowed that to happen.

I don't think either can be proved as fact, but I think him using is most likely given all those other things had to fail for it to be meat.

 

El Pollo needs his tainted beef! He also needs his PED chicken feed, hell, he just might lay an egg! Looks like someone stuck him with a balloon! He is so much smaller now without his PEDS! How will he cheat next time? Different PEDS, Oscar's referee, judges, judges, boxing commission, etc., oh...........and yes, his illegal hand wraps, wonder if Margarito can wrap his hand for him?

 

Yeah and Teddy had it 10-2 for Golovkin with the shoe on the other foot giving him zero credibility in calling out corruption when his card was just as ridiculous as Byrd's.

 

LOL look at you just trying to defend Sanchez. Even joey agrees about the hand wraps not being legal. It's a total mute point but yet we still hear Golovkin fans bringing it up all the time like they were illegal lol.

By the way, GGG COULD wrap his hands that way, it's just a hand wrapping style lol. There was no plaster on the hand wraps like Margarito or any scandal about it. It was just the style that Canelo has his hands wrapped which is perfectly legal. It was just that Sanchez never probably saw hand wraps wrapped that way and for some reason decided to accuse them of being illegal, but it turns out they weren't illegal confirmed by the NSAC. So why do you keep trying to defend Sanchez on this and trying to pass it off as a real issue? Sanchez was clearly in the wrong !

 

I like how you use other fights besides Golovkin, but allow me to retort. First of all, you allege that there was one scorecard not in line with the other for Canelo Cotto. I beg to differ : here were the cards for Canelo Cotto:

Judge: Burt A. Clements 118-110
Judge: Dave Moretti 119-109
Judge: John McKaie 117-111

All 3 judges were a single round away from each other. So there wasn't "one card completely out of line with the others" in that fight. To have one card completely out of line you'd need to have one card at least 2 rounds away from the other judges and that just didn't happen there. And honestly, having that fight 11 rounds 1 may seem off, but Cotto was being outboxed round after round. I'm reading here on boxrec that most people in the media seemed to have it about 116-112 or 117-111, however that's likely due to the respect people had for Cotto, giving him some rounds that were close. But no, there was not one judge completely out of line with the others. They were all within one round of each other. In all honesty, Canelo Cotto wasn't that close at all. Canelo clearly won and you can make the argument he won almost every round. Sure, if you tried really hard out of respect for Cotto you could give him a couple rounds that were close but there was nothing suspect about those cards at all. (and btw the judge that had it 11 rounds to 1 is Dave Moretti, yeah he's the same guy who scored Canelo Golovkin in favor of Golovkin)

And for Khan, like with Cotto, all 3 judges had the fight within a single round of each other. So, again, there was no judge completely out of line with the others in that one either. It's not like one judge gave Canelo all 5 rounds. The judges gave Khan 1, 2 or 3 rounds respectively. (Personally I thought Khan won 2 or 3 rounds, maybe even 4, but I'd have to watch it back, if I recall most of them were relatively close)

Now with Trout, Lara and Mayweather, sure you could make the argument that there was one judge out of line with the others. However with Trout, it's important to note that none of the 3 judges had the fight all that close. And there was a knockdown of Trout plus there was open scoring which also played a role in why the judges may have had it so wide.

You had 115-112, 116-111, and 118-109. Was it closer than 10-2 Canelo? I think so, Trout probably won about 4 or 5 rounds, but probably 2 of those rounds were close enough to be pretty much toss-ups where maybe Trout edged it. But in any event, really you had 3 fights (not 4 or 5) where there was a lone judge who gave multiple more rounds to Canelo than the others did.

Lets just take some of Mayweather's recent fights to see if we can find similar judging discrepancies, shall we, to see if this is something that only happened to Canelo?

Maywather Berto :

Judge: Adalaide Byrd 120-108
Judge: Dave Moretti 117-111
Judge: Steve Weisfeld 118-110

Wow Byrd had Mayweather winning that fight 12 rounds to 0 !!! But we didn't hear a single peep from anyone criticizing Byrd for that card did we? I thought Berto clearly won at least 2 or 3 rounds but Byrd didn't have Berto winning a single round. No one criticized Byrd for that card though. Obviously me bringing this up will just add fuel to the fire that Byrd is a bad judge, but you're missing the point. The fact is no one complained about Byrd's card here because it was Floyd but yet it highlights a pattern when you consider :

Mayweather Pacquiao :

Judge: Burt A. Clements 116-112
Judge: Dave Moretti 118-110
Judge: Glenn Feldman 116-112

Oh my goodness joeyp130, look at this, we have a pattern in Mayweather fights, why is it that one judge always seems be completely out of line with the others??

That's TWO FIGHTS IN THE SAME YEAR Floyd had a judge completely out of line with the others, but not a peep from anyone about lol.

Then you look at the Maidana fights, you had the first fight where one judge had it 117-111 for Mayweather but most people had it a draw, some even had Maidana winning !! The other judge had it 116-112 for Mayweather. That's two judges who out of line with the other joey. OH my goodness that's such a scandal !

And, many fans thought Floyd vs Cotto was pretty close. I've heard plenty of fans on here argue that Floyd Cotto was closer than Floyd Canelo. Well, in Floyd Cotto, one judge had Floyd winning 10 rounds to 2, the other judges had it 9-3. Oh my goodness joey, that was way wider than some of the press scores, I'm reading someone in the press had Floyd beating Cotto only 8 rounds to 4.

Do I sense a pattern here, why is it that so many of Floyd's fights have one score way out of line with the other judges or the press row scores? I mean if you just look at Floyd's fights vs Pacquiao, Berto, and the first fight with Maidana, that's as many fights with an out of line judge that Canelo had in his fights with Trout, Lara, and Mayweather. (and that's not even counting Mayweather Canelo in Floyd's tally with the shoe on the other foot)

As far as SRL Hagler, the difference there is that coming into the bout SRL had 6 consecutive knockouts. So he didn't have many decisions coming into the Hagler fight. But if you look at some SRL's decisions following the Hagler bout, many were in fact controversial and several had one judge out of line with the other 2. For example, we all know about SRL Hearns 2, the war that was declared a draw but most thought Hearns won. (even SRL later said Hearns won) SRL suffered two knockdowns in that fight but still it ended a draw 113-112, 112-112, 112-113. (SRL did have a big 12th but still many felt Tommy won most of the rounds and won a clear decision)

Then you had SRL Duran 3 : One judge had it 120-110, another had 119-109, the other judge had it a closer 116-111. Do we see a pattern here?

How about Terry Norris SRL? SRL was a shell of his former sell and most saw Norris completely dominate SRL, two just had Norris winning 120-104 & 119-103, giving having it 12-0 / 11-1, but yet a 3rd judge had it much closer 116-110 apparently giving SRL 4 rounds !

So with SRL Duran 3 and SRL Norris, you had one judge completely out of line with the others, but yet I don't think it's ever been mentioned. Combined those two with SRL Hagler that's the same amount of fights with having a judge completely out of line with the other two as Canelo has had, but yet I didn't hear anyone call those out for being a pattern with SRL fights.

The fact is you had dodgy scorecards in several of those late-career SRL fights, you had dodgy scorecards in several of those late-career Floyd Mayweather Jr fights, but yet no one really talks about those cards, complains about them like they do when it happens in a Canelo fight. The fact is Canelo had about the same amount of fights with an outlier judge giving him more rounds than the other judges as SRL or FMJ had. (and one of those fights was Canelo vs FMJ which could you make the same argument with the shoe on the other foot that Floyd got too many rounds)

I don't agree with the 10-2 card. But the fact is that rounds 5, 8 and 9 (the rounds that Byrd gave to Canelo that most disagreed with) were very close rounds upon closer inspection. So while I don't agree with giving Canelo all those rounds, I also don't agree that it's absurd by any standard. If you watch those rounds back, you can't conclude that Golovkin dominated or clearly won any of those rounds. You could argue Golovkin edged them with volume, but there are definitely reasons to give those rounds to Canelo that you and many others are willingly choosing to ignore. Also the 4th round almost everybody gave to Golovkin yet if you watch it back it's another round that could easily be scored to Canelo, it was really more of a 10-10 round, very even, certainly not a clear Golovkin round by any stretch. So you see it's not absurd to decide to give some of those rounds to Canelo, however I agree that giving all of those rounds to Canelo is a stretch. That's why I had it more in the 7-5/8-4 range, I tried to split some of those close rounds, but you should be able to admit that you could give those rounds to Canelo because he was landing some impressive punches throughout those rounds and in the 5th he was winning the first 2 minutes pretty clearly before Golovkin landed that right hand and started walking him down in the last minute.

 

Agreed, it was complete BS and Sanchez put that out there in the wake of the clenbuterol to try to pile on to that, and exposed himself in the process as a complaining accuser without knowing the rules about handwraps lmao which really was unprofessional and created a lot of unneeded drama that many Golovkin fans still bring up and try to argue that Canelo had illegal hand wraps like it's a real issue. That's what you call absurd !

 

Like I said before, a paid off judge wouldn't make it that obvious that they're paid off.. It would defeat the point and get him fired and probably jailed.. That would just as dumb as him buying a Lamborghini right after a Canelo fight...lol

And as for the meat story.. People eat whatever they want.. He went to a restaurant I thought.. Maybe he wanted to go out to eat one day.. Just because you have money and a nutritionist don't mean you can't want to go to a restaurant every once in a while.. Floyd ate fast food all the time right after leaving the gym...lol

With that being said, he took the blame for not knowing what he put in his body.. It's completely his fault.. But to think he has to live life and eat like a 'rich guy' is unfair.. If I had money I'd still want to go to Walmart and grab some meat and throw it on the grill myself.. I'm a grown man...lol

 

That's a great example. I remember after the Canelo fight Floyd made a video of himself driving around at like 3 am going to a McDonalds or something. If that was in Mexico you could easily ingest clenbuterol just by eating fast food.

The crux of the argument of those that think Canelo was cheating (taking clenbuterol pharmacologically) seems to be that because he's rich and has a nutritionist he can't want to go to a restaurant every once in a while or even eat fast food. We have videos of Floyd eating fast food and he's the richest boxer of all time by far, so that argument just falls flat right there.

 

If they are built naturally, they wouldn't shrink so quickly.

 

So why are the wraps illegal in every other state? Why is Nevada the only state to allow this?

 

As far as I know, they're not illegal in other states. Show us where in other states rulebook does it say that Canelo's style of hand wraps are illegal.

 

First..I'm going to start with the premise that I personally believe all elite athletes in any sport have used at one point or another. I believe Floyd has, I believe Paq has, and I won't be surprised to find out GGG has.

Your comparison with Floyd is invalid simply by the fact that Canelo lives in a place with a KNOWN issue.

I believe Canelo used. But let's say it is the meat. That means Canelo made the choice to eat meat not knowing it's source in a country with a know, well documented issue with Clen. That leads me to believe the following that Canelo and/or his team are stupid or they are arrogant.

I don't 5hink we will ever know 100% what happened exactly. To say it is "obvious" however is overstating and just not true. Canelo is a known weight cutter. To 100% rule out his use of a banned weight cutting substance is a reach.