Impossible is a bloody big word, my friend. What I would say is that it would be harder for him to catch Canelo with a shot like that than Loughran. Loughran has some useful attributes no doubt. However I think Canelo's defensive style is better suited to dealing with the kind of punches Sharkey throws, and what's more, he actually had some power to make Sharkey think twice before simply rushing in. Even if I conceded that point, it does not mean that Canelo isn't a bad matchup for Sharkey, which I think he is.
Really? Because Sharkey rushed on Dempsey without thinking twice and he battered him until the illegal low blow. Does Canelo have more power than Dempsey as well? He's significantly smaller. He likes to wait for opponents and try to figure them out. That won't work against Sharkey without physical advantages. Sharkey was unorthodox fighter and unlike most HWs, he could fight inside all night long with Canelo. Jack usually struggled with one thing - speed and I don't think Canelo is fast enough to trouble Jack. What's the way for Canelo to beat Sharkey? He wouldn't stop him, he likely wouldn't outwork him. Do you really believe he'd outland him despite physical disadvantages?
I think Canelo is plenty fast and he's more accurate than Dempsey for sure. I think he'd make Sharkey miss and thump him some good ones when he's overreached or off balance. If he managed to do that to Golovkin (fight #1) who usually keeps his poise, then I'm pretty sure he'd have a field day against a cruder and slower fighter like Sharkey. Even though Canelo has a great chin, he'd have to watch out for sure for Sharkey's power, and the early rounds might be interesting. But I think that once he got the feel for how Sharkey fought he'd give him a boxing lesson.
Yeah, I can definitely understand there being a sort of underlying arrogance to it. He knows he can take Saunders' punch and so went out of his way to land a few more. But even as a rule, he got hit far more against bigger hitters like Kovalev, GGG and even Jacobs than the short clips suggest.
There's far more footage to pick highlights from for Canelo than Loughran (who we mostly just have fragments of), there's probably more footage of Canelo just from a single fight, than all of what's online for Tommy Loughran This content is protected The guy was barely ever knocked out, and didn't even have that good a chin. Also it was a short right hook, not a "long right", that Sharkey KOed Loughran with.
Which particular full Loughran fights did you watch that convinced you that his footwork, jab and timing were all incredible?
Just disregarding some of your excellent points to address the “illegal blow” by Dempsey. I’ve watched it a million times and never can I say for a certainty it was illegal. Looked pretty clean to me if anything very borderline. I’m enjoying your convo though just reading the back and forth. Just thought I’d throw it in there
Only real basic self defense classes for boys at a community center. My younger brother was a golden gloves champion and I overlooked some of his basic training and fundamentals but that's about it.
It would be interesting to see an alternate version of the Classic forum where literally everybody is either an ex pro or professional coach. The flame wars would even be interesting...
I think you may be giving canelo too much credit. Maybe occasionally he gets hit just so he can bait someone. I don't think this is the norm though. He is not a natural counter puncher like Toney seamlessly switching between offense and defense. Golovkin basically spammed jabs both fights and he struggled to get away from them. They're the most basic, linear punches in boxing and Golovkin is no speed demon either.
Well a fighter he shared a ring with said he did. Maybe that was just that one night, but things like this interest me and make sense where my appraisal of Canelo is concerned. The jab, specifically, is the most difficult punch to get away from. Golovkin's is world class.
I'm not so sure about that. Depends on the jab and the guy receiving it.. A sharp Holmes like jab or Hearns seemingly lazy but whip like jab, they're both fast and hard to read. Both guys vary their angles and timing too. Golovkin had more of a heavy Liston type of jab imo. I don't see a seamless counter puncher like Toney getting nailed by Golovkins jab frequently for 24 rounds and having swelling on his face because he couldn't properly get away from them.
I miss the old tales of the tape. I know, I know, they’re not always accurate but it was still something to chew over. I actually found one that gave the wrist sizes for Hopkins and Kovalev, which were 6” and 6 1/2” respectively. Wrist size, though not fail safe, can be a reasonable indicator for overall body frame size. Suffice to say, the above wrist sizes are quite small - but again, are they accurate? In today’s currency, 7 1/2” + wrists still apparently present as large, with a likelihood of an overall body frame in kind. Jack Sharkey’s wrists were generally listed as 8”. Tbh, Sharks was quite big in the upper body, chest and arms - a fact particularly commented on by Peter Heller in his book IN THIS CORNER. Of course people aren’t becoming bigger by way of genetic evolution, rather, they are better fulfilling their genetic potential due to improved general nutrition etc. As such, the less healthily fed generations that preceded them could more accurately be described as stunted. Overall size has perhaps increased due to better nutrition but perhaps gains in average height is the most pronounced outcome. Meaning, males from yesterday without ideal nutrition, might’ve simply represented relatively compressed (height wise) versions of themselves as compared to how tall they might’ve grown otherwise in more mod. times. I’m no expert, just a musing. Per visual assessment, Canelo is more like 5’7 1/2” - so his listed reach 70 1/2” exceeds his height by 3”. His arms don’t look disproportionally long. Sharkey’s listed reach 72”. is exactly equal to his listed height. Again, Jack’s arm length relative to his height appears pretty average. Mike Tyson’s reach was/is a mere 71” - though Mike’s real prime height was about 5’10” - 5’ 10 1/2” max. so pretty much a slightly better than 1:1 reach to height ratio but still only 1/2” better than Canelo’s? Just shoot’n’ the breeze.
