Canelo beats Grebb, Hagler and Trinidad at MW

Pretty good point overall, but just out of arguments sake I'm not sure I agree that the HW division was stronger 1990 than it is now. Yes, you had Holy and Tyson, but overall it was a time of transition with the 80's guys (Spoon, Thomas, Tucker, Dokes, Tubbs etc) fading out and the new era (Bowe, Lewis) not yet fully fledged. And even five years later you had guys like Moorer and ancient Foreman passing the title around, so I think the 90's era gets a bit overrated nowadays. There were plenty of good HWs in it, but they were also inconsistent.

 

Lololololol. Maybe Trinidad.

Leonard beats him at middleweight, Hearns as well. He's no match for prime Hagler or Golovkin. Callum Smith is a nobody. Canelo should have 5 losses.

 

I respect your opinion, but I personally think it had a lot more depth.

I’m a huge fan of Fury’s, and I think he’d be a threat in any HW era.

Then we have exciting fighters in AJ and Wilder etc.

We have some great characters and some intriguing fights to look forward to.

It’s also going to be extremely interesting to see how Usyk fares with his great skills.

Personally, I think the division is thriving again. But overall, I don’t see the top 10-15 being particularly strong.

We have good fighters like Parker, Ruiz and Whyte etc, but outside of AJ and Fury, I think the quality level drops. (apart from Usyk, who again, still has question marks surrounding him)

We’re almost in 2021.

Below are the Ring’s ratings from 1991.

Whether you think I’ve exaggerated or not, there has been zero progression from 1991-today.

After 30 years of time that has passed, today’s group of HW’s are not in any way superior.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...atings:_1991&usg=AOvVaw0oFkyc_gBY8doK0rMeaj0u

 

Canelo LOST to a former SUPERFEATHERWEIGHT

 

You linked to the ranking for 1991, that were published in 1992. To be picky it should be those for 1990, that were published in early 1991: https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings:_1990

But, yeah, I wouldn't say that today's is necessarily better, just that it was a bit of transtionary year where several of the talented fighters in there such as Williams, Spoon and Douglas had really checked out and Bowe and Mercer were still developing somewhat. Holy and Tyson were of course top, top fighters, Ruddock always game and dangerous, but many of the other fighters there never consistently fulfilled their talent. That's why 70's fighters could make a splash in that era even though they were many years past their best.

But that's just nitpicking.

 

Exactly this. But then we get into the game of...if the fighters of old has access to today's sports science, drugs, nutrition, .... what would happen.

The whole thing is an exercise in futility really.

 

Marvin would beat the tainted meat out of Canelo

 

Canelo struggled vs Trout and arguably lost to Cotto depending on your scoring criteria. Also, he lost to a FW.

 

That’s how the Ring operate for their annual rankings.

We’re just about to go into 2021.

So 30 years ago would be 1991.

It does’t really matter though does it. You get my point.

I could have said 29 years, or almost 30 years. It doesn’t matter.

The point is, there’s been no overall progression.

If boxing evolved and progressed each decade like some sports have, then today’s fighters would be head and shoulders above any of their contemporaries from 30 years ago. But that’s simply not the case. And to me, that’s clear proof that it’s a myth that boxers keep getting better over time.

Canelo did great last night against Smith. I like Callum Smith. I think he’s a good fighter. But look at today’s SMW division to the one from the 90’s. Compare it to the one with the Super 6 with Ward and Froch etc.

The SMW division has actually regressed over the last 25 years.

The same thing has happened in a number of divisions.

Anybody who thinks that today’s guys are superior due to what’s happened in other sports, aren’t real fans of the sport. They’re just social media casuals with no knowledge. They’re completely ignorant.

Who would actually pick Canelo to beat Hagler, based on the fact that other sports have progressed since Hagler’s era.

If you’re going to pick Canelo, that’s cool. But do it on how you think their styles would have meshed and how you think the fight would have played out. Don’t do it based on Hagler’s D.O.B.

I can’t stand ignorance like that.

 

If boxing have progressed or not or even regressed is a constant question, that I can't be too arsed about. Yes, there is seemingly good reason why old time HWs of 6´1, 6´2 and 190-2000 lbs would find it hard going against today's HWs, but always hard to say for sure and I don't care that much.

But 80's Hagler should primarily be compared against fighters that are 160+ in the ring (if one bothers with such comparisons), not ones that are about 180 in the ring.

 

You don’t even need to think about those things.

Just take them as they were.

I call them time machine fantasy fights.

So you don’t have to deliberate on what you think would have happened had Hagler had a sports scientist and a nutritionist in his camp etc. Just assume it’s the exact same versions from the early 80’s who fought Sibson and Minter.

 

I think that it’s obvious to any knowledgeable fan that the sport ebbs and flows.

We know that today’s CW and LHW divisions are thriving.

We know that today’s SMW division is quite weak compared to other eras.

There’s been no noticeable progression across the board.

It’s very simple as far as I’m concerned.

If boxing kept progressing, nobody would pick WW’s from 30 and 40 years ago to beat today’s guys.

Regarding Marvin, yeah, he’d probably be a JMW today. But I’d pick the versions who fought Sibson and Minter over the versions of Canelo who fought GG, no matter what Canelo weighed on fight night.

 

It’s: GREB.

 

Floyd had what it took to defeat a (very young) Canelo....SPEED. Canelo has a granite chin. In his loss to GGG (first one) he took numerous huge shots and they had some effect but not enough to stop him in his tracks. SPEED is what will defeat Canelo (plus honest judges if they can be found). Not power, but SPEED.

This is why at 160 Greb and SRR beat him. Hagler would give him problems but the fight would be like a GGG fight...Hagler loses the decision. Greb was a windmilling, constantly moving boxer which is just what's needed to beat Canelo. SRR has the hand speed and movement to outbox him. Both win by UD (again, I'm assuming honest judges; is that too much to ask?) . Hopkins could possibly win a decision by outfoxing Canelo but I have my doubts.

Most intriguing matchup at 160 would be LaMotta/Canelo. Both guys look the same physically, both have incredible chins. This would be a war to end all wars.

Trinidad doesn't win at MW. Neither does Pavlik, who would look like Smith at the end of the bout.

Forgot about RJJ....wide UD win for Roy.

And Calzaghe has what it takes to beat Canelo....HAND SPEED.