Canelo Bivol rounds 1-4 - "close fight" comprehensively debunked debunked

Ellerbe sees it landing, why don't you Q?

 

I would say it lands but barely. The language you were using was "Bounced of the head" and "Moved Bivol back" which is not what I see.
In fact I wouldn't count any of those punches in that GIF. I just wouldn't.

 

Good, now we're making progress. The punch landed.

No, that was a different jab in which I used that language. Pay more attention.

Punches landed but you wouldn't count them. Hmmmm that's interesting. I count landed punches.

 

I thought the last one was the same punch but from the angle broadcast. is that not correct is this now a different punch?

 

This was the jab that I said "connected to the forehead and backed Bivol up" :

https://imgur.com/64ELEU6

3 seconds later, the dueling jabs occurred :

https://imgur.com/jGcN9WG

They look similar because Bivol was backed up each time. You can tell they are different because in the first one Bivol didn't throw a jab.

 

It is the same punch ,different angle...ref is in same position & sidesteps to the left each time the jab is throw....to be clear Bivol was not backed up by that powder puff jab but rather his movement was in anticipation of obvious attempt at a meaningful combination...something Canelo didn't seem to manage very often in this fight....maybe superior ringcraft frustrated him , who knows, certainly not Shadow...

 

Ok cool.
1. I class that as mentioned before as a range finder/distration to throw the hook and Bivol steps back and it misses. I wouldn't class either punch as scoring as the jab doesn't snap the head back and really is just there to block Bivols sight more than to do damage. The second punch you ceratinly cannot not class as a scoring punch. You just can't Shadow.
2. The second is a little harder to judge. they both make slight contact although difficult to see from this angle how much contact is made with Bivols punch. As for Canelo the punch makes slight contact with Bivol turning his head so the punch looks like it scuffs with the contact being the back of Canelo's hand and certainly not the fist. I can't count that as scoring either.
I said earlier that I know exactly your tactic for piicking these punches is but both are very poor examples of scoring punches as they barely make contact. I know your angle to try and take this down a road of semantics as we have both been here before. The fact is though you can't count a punch if it skims the head or just brushes the face that's just nonsense. You know that as well as I which is why you have cherry picked these borderline examples so that you can build a narrative.
The issue is Bivol threw and landed a lot more than Canelo so if we go through the fight you might be able to add some none scoring shots to Canelo's tally but you will still be well down on the actual numbers. So you will then need to weasel and reframe it under another narrative once this one has been exhausted.
So in conclusion what's been presented thus far is slight contact and you want to score them as scoring shots. I strongly disagree as I wouldn't be counting them if Bivol threw them. Like I said before there isn't any situation when I debate or disciss in bad faith. It just isn't in my personaility to behave like that and I don't suddenly move the goal posts if my back is in a corner. That's usually because I don't start with a fallacy to begin with. So no Shadow you can't in good faith count those punches because that's not how it's scored. Were not watching an Am. fight here where the scoring criteria is different.

 

It's not the same punch. The first one is a jab by followed by a right hook to the shoulder with Bivol covering up and crashing into the ropes. The second is both men throwing jabs at the same time 3 seconds later.

 

Sure I can, they were jabs that landed. The first one landed with more force and sent Bivol on his way back into the ropes. The second one also backed Bivol up but not with as much force. They're both scoring shots, the first one was more effective and had more force on it through the guard. The second one had less force on it but Bivol had his guard down. Both were effective shots but the 2nd one less so becauase it didn't land as hard. If you don't count these as scoring shots then you shouldn't count a lot of Bivol's jabs which didn't land as well as those. Q for example, counted Bivol's love tap at 0:46 as a scoring shot :

https://imgur.com/bOWdsW6

which was blocked, pushed aside and had less force on it than either of those Canelo jabs.

Both jabs landed, they connected at the exact same time, Bivol's to Canelo's chest / ribs area below his jabbing arm, and Canelo's to Bivol's forehead/temple area.

 

I feel like this argument is extremely unstructured and all over the place. @shadow111 @kiwi_boxer @exocet76 Can we establish what the goal here is? From what I gathered, Shadow is saying the do fight can be scored 8-4 and there were some close rounds that could go either way, while you guys are claiming it was a shut out.

 

Why would I be butthurt? I put money on a late stoppage or decision win for Bivol.

I knew Canelo would be made to look foolish in there. His power didn't bail him out this time and it serves him right.