Canelo/Cotto has to reach 1 mill buys to make profit

Willie Maeket · Nov 15, 2015

drenlou said: ↑

if it comes under a Mill are you going to say it was a failure?
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Good question. abuffy was the same person discrediting PPV buys as important because his favorite fighter can't draw buys. Now when another PPV comes up he is on the PPV are important train. Flip-flopping, no consistency.

GGG will be fighting Tureano Johnson for that belt if it comes down to it and he will never be on another PPV fight until he steps up. Blame bad timing, Canelo, Cotto or Maywether and Pacquiao if you want to. K2 Promotions job is to sell him to the public not anyone else.

abuffy · Nov 15, 2015

Rumsfeld said: ↑

I've never tried to "discredit your character". In fact, I think you're a good poster.

Nonetheless, I don't think my observation is quite the stretch you make it out to be. You did, after all, frequently posit the notion that GGG-Lemieux only needed 100k (or something like that) to be deemed profitable. GGG's fight was reported to have exceeded that break even point. Now you're positing that Cotto-Canelo needs to do a million.

GGG did approximately 150k, and was a financial success.

But if Cotto-Canelo does anything less than a million...

:smoke
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Do you understand what it means to make profit? For GGG break even was 150K. This means that is how much they needed to make to get everyone paid. They surpassed 150K by a few thousand... everyone got paid and they made extra profit from PPV. It did what it needed to do and met expectation. Hence success. They didn't lose any money. Nothing went wrong. They did what they needed to do.

If Cotto/Canelo break even at a little above a million, I'd say the same thing, but the bare minimum that they'd have to make would be 1 million to pay everyone. Cotto/Canelo have to make 1 million PPV buys to break even because their purses are ridiculously high which causes the card to be ridiculously expensive and your "break even" number to be that much ridiculously higher.

Golovkin's card- entire card- was only 8 million. So, their standard was MUCH MUCH lower than Cotto/Canelo. They didn't have to do NEARLY as much to make profit because the fighters were paid, in comparison, much smaller purses. Cotto and Canelo have to make 1 mill because their card is that much more expensive. I'm not being unfair to them by saying this. It's just what it is. That's not an agenda. It's just common sense! Just simple understanding, no offense.

ellerbe · Nov 15, 2015

abuffy said: ↑

Do you understand what it means to make profit? For GGG break even was 150K. This means that is how much they needed to make to get everyone paid. They surpassed 150K by a few thousand... everyone got paid and they made extra profit from PPV. It did what it needed to do and met expectation. Hence success. They didn't lose any money. Nothing went wrong. They did what they needed to do.

If Cotto/Canelo break even at a little above a million, I'd say the same thing, but the bare minimum that they'd have to make would be 1 million to pay everyone. Cotto/Canelo have to make 1 million PPV buys to break even because their purses are ridiculously high which causes the card to be ridiculously expensive and your "break even" number to be that much ridiculously higher.

Golovkin's card- entire card- was only 8 million. So, their standard was MUCH MUCH lower than Cotto/Canelo. They didn't have to do NEARLY as much to make profit because the fighters were paid, in comparison, much smaller purses. That's not an agenda. It's just common sense! Just simple understanding, no offense.
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How much is the cotto/canelo card?

runner_phob · Nov 15, 2015

Golovkin's entire card was around 4 mil, not 8. By the way, as Cotto/Canelo purses haven't been disclosed, how can one make estimates of a number of PPV buys to break even ???

ellerbe · Nov 15, 2015

abuffy said: ↑

Do you understand what it means to make profit? For GGG break even was 150K. This means that is how much they needed to make to get everyone paid. They surpassed 150K by a few thousand... everyone got paid and they made extra profit from PPV. It did what it needed to do and met expectation. Hence success. They didn't lose any money. Nothing went wrong. They did what they needed to do.

If Cotto/Canelo break even at a little above a million, I'd say the same thing, but the bare minimum that they'd have to make would be 1 million to pay everyone. Cotto/Canelo have to make 1 million PPV buys to break even because their purses are ridiculously high which causes the card to be ridiculously expensive and your "break even" number to be that much ridiculously higher.

Golovkin's card- entire card- was only 8 million. So, their standard was MUCH MUCH lower than Cotto/Canelo. They didn't have to do NEARLY as much to make profit because the fighters were paid, in comparison, much smaller purses. Cotto and Canelo have to make 1 mill because their card is that much more expensive. I'm not being unfair to them by saying this. It's just what it is. That's not an agenda. It's just common sense! Just simple understanding, no offense.
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You say the GGG/Lemieux card was 8m right. I'll be a nice guy and say they sold 150k, even there are rumors that it's anywhere from 100-150k. I'll also be a nice guy and assume that everyone bought it HD so that's 30 bucks since the cable company takes half which equates to 4.5m. Apparently the gate did around 2m, and Let's say they sold 500k in merch, that's still a 1m deficit. Unless they made 1.5m in merch which i HIGHLY doubt.

abuffy · Nov 15, 2015

Willie Maeket said: ↑

Good question. abuffy was the same person discrediting PPV buys as important because his favorite fighter can't draw buys. Now when another PPV comes up he is on the PPV are important train. Flip-flopping, no consistency.

GGG will be fighting Tureano Johnson for that belt if it comes down to it and he will never be on another PPV fight until he steps up. Blame bad timing, Canelo, Cotto or Maywether and Pacquiao if you want to. K2 Promotions job is to sell him to the public not anyone else.
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If Cotto and Canelo do not break even and the promotions have to cut checks of millions of dollars to cover the loss then yes it would be a failure. You wouldn't think 500,000K buys would be necessarily bad but people from both sides would be jumping out of windows, as Rafael so delicately put. That's because you have to keep in mind how much money was invested into the fight. How much PROFIT they made. And in the case of being under a million buys, they'd LOSE PROFIT.

abuffy · Nov 15, 2015

runner_phob said: ↑

Golovkin's entire card was around 4 mil, not 8. By the way, as Cotto/Canelo purses haven't been disclosed, how can one make estimates of a number of PPV buys to break even ???
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I was including the money they gave to cable companies. Sorry.

And it was from Steve Kim and what he's heard from people involved. I'm sure there's been numerous reports on the purses.

runner_phob · Nov 15, 2015

ellerbe said: ↑

You say the GGG/Lemieux card was 8m right. I'll be a nice guy and say they sold 150k, even there are rumors that it's anywhere from 100-150k. I'll also be a nice guy and assume that everyone bought it HD so that's 30 bucks since the cable company takes half which equates to 4.5m. Apparently the gate did around 2m, and Let's say they sold 500k in merch, that's still a 1m deficit. Unless they made 1.5m in merch which i HIGHLY doubt.
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It was 4 mil: 2 to GGG, 1.5 to Lemieux and some change to the rest.

ellerbe · Nov 15, 2015

runner_phob said: ↑

It was 4 mil: 2 to GGG, 1.5 to Lemieux and some change to the rest.
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GGG got no share of the PPV rev? He only got a 2 mill guarantee? Damn that's pathetic, Ward gets paid more fighting on free tv!

Rumsfeld · Nov 15, 2015

abuffy said: ↑

Do you understand what it means to make profit? For GGG break even was 150K. This means that is how much they needed to make to get everyone paid. They surpassed 150K by a few thousand... everyone got paid and they made extra profit from PPV. It did what it needed to do and met expectation. Hence success. They didn't lose any money. Nothing went wrong. They did what they needed to do.

If Cotto/Canelo break even at a little above a million, I'd say the same thing, but the bare minimum that they'd have to make would be 1 million to pay everyone. Cotto/Canelo have to make 1 million PPV buys to break even because their purses are ridiculously high which causes the card to be ridiculously expensive and your "break even" number to be that much ridiculously higher.

Golovkin's card- entire card- was only 8 million. So, their standard was MUCH MUCH lower than Cotto/Canelo. They didn't have to do NEARLY as much to make profit because the fighters were paid, in comparison, much smaller purses. Cotto and Canelo have to make 1 mill because their card is that much more expensive. I'm not being unfair to them by saying this. It's just what it is. That's not an agenda. It's just common sense! Just simple understanding, no offense.
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No offense taken at all. :thumbsup

And without meaning to come across as being offensive myself, your post here is following the exact train of thought I had initially insinuated.

:good

abuffy · Nov 15, 2015

Rumsfeld said: ↑

No offense taken at all. :thumbsup

And without meaning to come across as being offensive myself, your post here is following the exact train of thought I had initially insinuated.

:good
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So, do you agree.......? I just want to make sure you understand this.

ellerbe · Nov 15, 2015

abuffy said: ↑

So, do you agree.......? I just want to make sure you understand this.
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Cotto has a 10 mill guarantee+share of the PPV and Canelo has a 6.5m guarantee with no back end deal. I dont know what the undercard is paying but the PPV will by 70bucks each. If they clear 600k it'll be more than enough, Cotto just won't make as much, his purse is reliant on his PPV sales.

600k ppvs is 21m, and this isn't including the gate fee or merch like we included for GGG. Cotto is supposed to make 30 mill if the PPV sales 1.5m which means he's getting around 20% of the PPV rev. So if the PPV sells 600k Canelo gets 6.5m which leave 14.5m left, cotto gets 10m+20% of 21m which is 4.2m, so there's still 300k profit+gate+merch.

Rumsfeld · Nov 15, 2015

abuffy said: ↑

So, do you agree.......? I just want to make sure you understand this.
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Actually, I'm still a little iffy on the finer details.

Would you be so kind as to please explain it to me more thoroughly?

:smoke

Ricdog · Nov 15, 2015

abuffy said: ↑

Always do a million buys? Can you provide examples, please? Neither of the Cotto/Margo fights surpassed 700K...

The only fighters who've ever surpassed a million buys consistently is Mayweather and Pacquiao and neither of them are Mexican nor Puerto Rican. And if I'm correct (which pretty sure I am) the only times Canelo or Cotto have made above a million buys was when they were paired with them....
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Cotto vs Margarito was not a Mexico vs Puerto Rico fight, it was simply a Cotto fight. Why? Because Mexicans never adopted Margarito as their representative fighter. Mexicans adopted De La Hoya against Trinidad, Marquez against Pacquiao, and Canelo against Mayweather. But they never sided with Margarito, heck most of them never even heard of him before. Cotto/Margarito was no more of a rivalry than Martinez vs Salido.

How do I know this, just simple observation. Again by casuals, I ain't talking about your regular sports bar fans...i'm talking real ethnic Puerto Rican/Mexican families here. Not too long ago I was at a real Mexican restaurant, the ones where the menu is in spanish and the TVs have nothing but soccer games on...yea they already had a Canelo vs Cotto poster. And these places never buy any other fights like UFC or Mayweather, they only buy it when a fellow countrymen (like Marquez, Barrera, Canelo) is going to fight.

These are the "casuals" that are going to bring in the +1mil PPV buys.

De La Hoya/Trinidad, Marquez/Pacquiao, Cotto/Mayweather, Canelo/Mayweather. All these fights past a million buys at the time when the star fighter could no longer bring over a million by himself. Mayweather and Pacquiao could not do over a million buys when they fought Canelo and Marquez, as proof by their Guerrero and Bradley fights.

CST80 · Nov 15, 2015

It was Mexico vs Puerto Rico to the rest of us who like watching it though.

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Canelo/Cotto has to reach 1 mill buys to make profit

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