Canelo & fixed fights

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Quina74, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. Sheikh

    Sheikh Well-Known Member Full Member

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    For a guy who mkaes 100K a fight, why not just pay him off? Its obvious boxing has always had fixed fights. This will be no different. This will be a sparring session with a KO ending. The South African will just throw light jabs mark my words.
     
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  2. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I mean, I could also say 'take it from someone who is Spanish (yes, Canelo is Spanish), who's first language is Spanish, who's name is Spanish, who believes Canelo exposed Golovkin as a hype-job in both their fights and someone who is a massive Canelo fan and I still believe Canelo's fight against Kovalev was fishy" and that wouldn't make my conclusion / argument any more valid or credible, the same way it doesn't make yours any more credible or valid either.

    As much as I am a fan of Canelo Alvarez, anybody who has respectable intelligence and has sufficient self-respect in general, will have to question the Kovalev fight AT THE VERY LEAST, as somewhat fishy, if not fixed. Again, I'm not claiming the fight was a 'FIX' per se, but I'm claiming the fight didn't appear 'NORMAL' in many ways, like Kovalev acting / fighting out of character being the main way
     
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  3. bandeedo

    bandeedo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    looked normal to me. i actually wrote about the fight a year before it was announced, back when canelo was avoidingall the guys he has since smashed. picked canelo to beat kovalev. not by ko, though. i wasnt sure he would carry his power up. everything else pretty much played out like i thought, and said it would.
     
  4. lordlosh

    lordlosh Boxing Addict Full Member

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    All i had to say. :D
    117-110 in the judges scorecard ...
     
  5. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Or was Kovalev just fighting more cautious than usual knowing how dangerous Canelo was and knowing how his punch resistance wasn't what it once was? Some might see it as Kovalev fighting out of character but maybe he was doing that in order to give himself the best chance of surviving and going the distance. Canelo also was fighting more cautious as this was his first time fighting as high as LHW and he knew the power that Kovalev possessed. So I think the fight didn't appear normal and wasn't as action packed as people thought because both fighters had good reason to be super cautious of one another and more selective in their punch output.

    So I think that's where the disconnect it. Interpreting both fighters taking a more cautious approach than usual as some sort of confirmation bias that it must have been fixed because neither fighter really fought like you would have expected them to. There are reasons why it didn't look normal, there are reasons why both fighters fought out of character. Both were very wary of each other's power and it produced a low output chess match rather than an all-out war. That doesn't make it a fixed fight just because both were fighting super cautious. But I could see someone looking for reasons to think that something was fishy by them fighting out of character and more cautious than expected as some kind of confirmation bias to conclude that it looked like it was fixed. A lot of this stems from those who predicted that Kovalev would win due to the size difference and then having to come up with some kind of excuse for why their predicton didn't happen.
     
  6. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm sorry to say this, but if you genuinely, hand on heart, believe the Kovalev that fought Canelo Alvarez was even remotely comparable to the Kovalev that fought even Yarde, even by an iota, then one will have to question your observation skills, or boxing knowledge, or IQ, or all of those things. And I say this in the most respectful way!

    Even if we compare the first rounds of Kovalev vs Canelo to Kovalev vs Yarde, how do you possibly explain Kovalev not stepping into his jabs, much less any of his power punches even once against Canelo which he does repeatedly against Yarde from the very first bell? Not once does Kovalev go for Canelo's body and Kovalev never at any point, hit through Canelo. Instead, he was pulling back in the last second looking to not hurt Canelo.

    Now I don't know if that proves a fix or something else. For all we know, Kovalev could have had a secret injury or arm pain that we may have not been aware of. I'm not going to jump into conclusion like some of the other people out there doing so prematurely because it'd be a logical leap, which is a logical fallacy. But the Kovalev fight being 'fishy' AT THE VERY LEAST, is literally obvious with anybody that has respectable boxing knowledge, respectable intelligence and functional eyes.

    Nothing Kovalev did against Canelo looked 'normal'. He 'normally' punches through the target and steps into his shots. Not the case against Canelo. And in case you respond by saying 'he was scared of the counters', Kovalev was fighting that way before Canelo even landed a single counter-punch. So that refutes this position. Not to mention, Kovalev was getting hit anyway, by purposely giving up his range advantage by coming closer than he needed to, so clearly, he wasn't scared of getting hit if that was the case. So since he was getting hit anyway, there's no excuse for Kovalev to try to hit Canelo with bad intentions himself even if it meant getting countered.
     
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  7. Grinder

    Grinder Dude, don't call me Dude Full Member

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    Jake Paul uses the Canelo contract template: "no ko of Canelo allowed "
     
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  8. exocet76

    exocet76 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    All they needed to do was hide Kovalev's bottle the day before the fight. The DT's would have him weak as a kitten. In relation to corruption most of you on here clearly don't know the history of boxing and it's innate "rigging" thinking that it doesn't happen today is naive and a bit ******ed taking into account the slue of drugs in world sport and don't even bother mention testing because Lance Armstrong passed hundreds of "tests" it took his team mates being Subpoenaed for that to come out of the wash.
     
  9. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I never claimed the fight was 'fixed', so that's a strawman! But yes, the fight was indeed 'FISHY'.

    Anyway, as for your claim about 'Kovalev trying to give himself a fighting chance so he could survive', you don't give yourself a 'fighting chance' by purposely giving up your range advantage by coming closer than you need to against a much shorter opponent, when he's proven enough times in the past he can keep shorter opponents at bay. Furthermore, playing pitty patty all night doesn't improve your chances of surviving. It's like going into a sword fight and tapping your opponent's shield (LITERALLY), that's exactly what Kovalev was doing, tapping Canelo's guard for the entire 11 rounds, both leave you more open to damaging counters from your opponent.
     
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  10. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just as an example, you could say there was something "fishy" about the way Wilder fought Fury in fight 2 and 3. Wilder fought very out of character in the rematch, looking exhausted from the opening bell which was apparently due to the entrance costume sapping him of his normal energy. He didn't have his normal energy that night and as a result faded quickly and got stopped. Fury took advantage, but no one claimed that those fights were fixed. It was obvious that Wilder just too focused on his entrance costume rather than preparing to fight. In the 3rd fight, Wilder once again looked completely exhausted at the opening bell and instead of fighting cautiously to compensate for being exhausted went balls to the wall because he promised the fans he would go for the KO.

    Kovalev definitely looked uncomfortable and off against Canelo, and I think one reason that could explain why that was had to do with the fact that DAZN delayed the start of Canelo-Kovalev in order to avoid overlap with UFC 244. Both fighters had to wait for UFC to end before stepping in the ring, this extended wait I think caused Kovalev to get more anxious and it could have explained why he fought so out of character.
     
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  11. Reppin501

    Reppin501 The People's Champ Full Member

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    Exactly, the flaw in the logic presented in the OP is that any person paid to lose would make 3 times their purse by selling the story. It’s idiocy.
     
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  12. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    In all those fights you mentioned, both guys were committing to their punches by stepping in and hitting through their targets. Not comparable to Kovalev vs Canelo! Wilder running out of energy has very clear explanations. For example, Fury being significantly bigger and heavier than Wilder, leaning his body weight on Wilder, combined that with making Wilder miss his haymakers, justifiably made Wilder tired. And Wilder is not even remotely comparable to Kovalev, who has fought many elite / top level opponents whilst Fury was literally his first ever prime top level opponent (excluding ancient Luis Ortiz). Nothing was out of character from Wilder. It was the first time Wilder ever fought a top level opponent and therefore he looked out of character because we previously had no idea of what his 'character' is against a top level opponent as he never faced on in their prime. His 'character' against bums is irrelevant and doesn't apply to a fight against an opponent at the caliber of Fury.

    Whereas with Kovalev, he has faced top opposition even outside of Canelo Alvarez like Andre Ward for example. Even in that fight, he was stepping into his shots and hitting through Ward's face / body. Not once did he do that against Canelo Alvarez. There's no literally no justification for that, other than something being 'fishy'. Again, it doesn't necessarily prove a 'fix', but potentially something else instead. I don't know for sure! But there's no logical reason why a healthy Kovalev coming to win, shouldn't be stepping into his shots and trying to hit through the target. Even the UFC justification doesn't explain why Kovalev could not step into his shots and commit to his shots, even if in the first round ONLY. Even Wilder was doing that, but simply could not land on Fury, or landed but Fury got back up[ to his feet after going down, which is a different story altogether.
     
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  13. bandeedo

    bandeedo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    read the first line and it was obvious you went off on something i never addressed. you made a statement which was contrary to my experience and i posted what my experience was. it was not long or hard to understand. im sure you can figure out what i actually said, and separate that from what you want to argue. to reiterate, i am intelligent, i have self respect, and i saw canelo beating kovalev way before they signed the fight, and he became a shot alcoholic with 3 days to prepare.
     
  14. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree with a lot of what you said here, but in fairness to Wilder, he didn't look out of character the first time that he fought Fury. Yes he was being outpointed round after round, BUT he managed to hang in there and he kept several of the rounds somewhat close, he didn't tire and he did managed to knock down Fury twice and had him milliseconds away from being KO'd. Wilder was similarly being outboxed in both matches against Ortiz before coming up with the big KO, all of which is very "in character" for Wilder to be outboxed and losing rounds but then to come up with a devastating KO.

    The difference between Wilder and Kovalev among other things is that Kovalev throws a lot more punches per round but both were known for being devastating KO punches, not by winning decisions. And if we're honest, the only prime top level opponent Kovalev ever fought was Ward (excluding ancient 49-year old Hopkins) before he fought Canelo. So in total, both Wilder and Kovalev have exactly the same # of bouts vs prime top level opponents (3).

    I agree with you that Kovalev wasn't stepping into his shots against Canelo like he did vs Ward, and I appreciate you not calling it a fix and concluding that you don't know. I don't know either but I have my theories. Some say it was because Kovalev started hitting the bottle after the losses to Ward. Others point to the rehydration clause, but Kovalev was used to doing same day rehydration weigh-ins when he was IBF Champ and he was not known for coming anywhere close to the 10-lb limit for those weigh-ins. His performance may have had something to do with him having a short camp and coming off a tough fight with Yarde where he took some damage. That may have played a role in why he fought the way he did. But to discount all these possible reasons and claim that the fight had to be a fix, that's jumping to conclusions. I personally wouldn't even call it "fishy", I think it was just a case of both fighting super cautious especially Kovalev.
     
  15. Ph33rknot

    Ph33rknot El gran campeón Mexicano Full Member

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    Think canelo took a dive against May or do you think he actually thought he had a shot