Canelo-Golovkin II - Big Drama Show?

The only drama is whether they will screw Golovkin again, or let him win in order to set up the lucrative trilogy.

This is a fight that doesn't even need to happen.

 

Good video as always @Rumsfeld

I will say that if GGG decides to open up earlier in the fight he will be risking getting countered more frequently in first rounds when Canelo is at his strongest, sharpest, and fastest.

Based on the last fight, I observed that it wasn't until Canelo slowed down that Golovkin was able to start putting in good work.

As far as room for improvement I feel that Canelo's stamina will be better as he and his team have acknowledged that it was a problem in the first fight.

If Canelo does in fact works on his stamina, and Golovkin does in fact take more risks earlier on than in the first fight, I can see Golovkin getting caught by Canelo's fast explosive counters more frequently than in the first three rounds of the first fight.

IMO Golovkin fought very hard and was as relentless as he could be in their first fight, and he will have to match that in the rematch and dig deeper and fight that way and possibly harder in the rematch if Canelo has indeed focused on his stamina which I believe he did.

Great fight and like you said, may the best man get the W.

 

The dodgy scorecard and failed tests have taken a bit of the shine off this fight for me, although it's still a good fight. I wouldn't say it's a fight that doesn't need to happen

 

I felt as many do that Canelo won the first three rounds and the last three rounds. If I favor Canelo I can also give him a round or two in between. I can also see how someone can argue the same score for GGG.

As far as the fight not needing to happen, I absolutely feel it needed to happen. This is for MW supremacy and the winner will have all roads leading to him. The MW division is suddenly very interesting and we need clarity.

GGG didn't look like GGG against Canelo. He looked like a man content on using the jab to score points, he also didn't look as accurate as we're accustomed missing nearly 70% of his punches, and had zero body attack. He landed about two really good punches the entire fight.

So while many people scored it for him despite losing om Defense, and Hard Clean Punches landed, as a hardcore fan I saw Golovkin timid and wild in there, even stalking in straight lines.

If Canelo fixes his stamina issues, he should have no problems outboxing Golovkin for more rounds than the first fight.

 

I was actually hoping for the Saunders fight, but that lost a lot of its shine too when the IBF stripped Golovkin.
Let's all just hope that Vegas judging will be on the level for once, cause that's where the drama lies in this matchup. Or better yet, that the judges aren't needed at all.

 

Golovkin is almost a 2:1 favorite this time. Could it be because El Pollo will not be allowed to take his PEDS? Could it be that they agreed on neutral judges this time? Neutral referee? Everyone is suspect of cheating by Oscar once again, fans are expecting it, so perhaps the Nevada Boxing Commission will make sure this fight will be on a level playing field and perhaps Golovkin will be allowed to fight full force this time? Call 702-486-2575 and tell the boxing commission that you want a level playing field this time, no cheating like that last time, such as Byrd...............insist on a fair fight 702-486-2575 702-486-2575

 

Nice video Rumsfeld. I'm glad the rematch is happening too. I know you posted your scorecard a while back. I still don't know how you give Golovkin 8 rounds in a row from rounds 4-11. You brought up the Byrd card several times in the video as being so terrible, but at the same time you recognized that many of the rounds were close but that Golovkin was doing the better work.

My question to you is, in general : do you typically score rounds for the guy who lands the better punches or the guy who lands the most punches? Because it seems to me that in most of those rounds you scored for Golovkin, Canelo was in fact doing the better work, whereas it was Golovkin that was doing the "more" work. So if you're going to say you thought Golovkin was doing the better work in rounds 4-11, then I guess my question is what made what Golovkin was doing in those rounds "better"? He was coming forward, he was throwing more punches, but he was also getting tagged with big punches. Yeah he landed a few more punches, granted, but it wasn't better, it was just that he was moving his arms more, coming forward more, landing more partial / glancing stuff. Not landing "better" than Canelo.

You recognized that Canelo was the boxer that showcased the better techincal prowess. If Golovkin won all those middle rounds, it seems to me that it was because he was out working Canelo, throwing more punches, landing a few more jabs maybe, rather than doing the better work. The better work would be the fighter who lands the cleaner more effective punches.

To be clear, I'm not defending the Byrd card in any way shape or form, it was too wide in my view, but as somebody who had Canelo winning 8-4 / 7-5, I don't see the Byrd card as that crazy IF you score rounds to the fighter that lands the best overall punches in a round as opposed to the fighter who may get in a few more punches landed over the course of the round. In those middle rounds, it was classic quantity vs quality was it not? Quality is "better" than quantity. Quantity's only better if the quality is about the same, which it wasn't in most of those middle rounds. (the only round really that Golovkin's quality and quantity really seemed to out-do Canelo was round 7, and Byrd recognized that and gave the round to Golovkin)

If you judge the quality of the work landed in a round, and don't just give it to the guy walking forward and throwing more punches, you could theoretically give Canelo many of those middle rounds. (particularly 6, 8, 9, and certainly 10 & 11 which many people gave to Canelo) You had Golovkin winning 8 - 4 and gave Golovkin 8 rounds in a row. Well OK, that's your call, but I don't see how Golovkin landed the better punches in most of those rounds or did the better work. If he won those rounds, it was because he did more work, not the better work. Do you agree with that?

To give Golovkin 8 rounds in a row like you did, you are pretty much ignoring the quality of Canelo's uppercuts in rounds 6 and 8, which were better than anything Golovkin landed in those rounds, and frankly better than any punch Golovkin landed in the entire fight. Byrd didn't ignore those punches, she saw how vicious those punches landed and concluded that Canelo deserved to win that round because nothing Golovkin did in those rounds could match that.

A sensational uppercut like that can in fact offset several ineffective jabs or right hands that the opponent slips with upper body movement but technically is considered a hit.

I think now that the rematch is happening, it would be a good idea if we can put Byrd's card in the proper perspective, to save ourself from the kind of outrage that could result if the rematch goes to a decision lol. If you recognize full that pretty much all the rounds were close, what is stopping you from considering rounds 6, 8 9, etc from being toss-up rounds?

I mean if you prioritize aggression and volume, then OK give Golovkin rounds 7,8 and 9. But rounds 4 and 5, those were not like 7 8 and 9 where Golovkin was outworking Canelo. I mean in Round 5, Canelo was outlanding Golovkin over the first 2 minutes. If you give Golovkin the round, OK ( I did) for the right hand and the chasing Canelo in the final minute and landing a few OK, but if you really watch that round it was pretty much a toss-up. So was round 4, you recognized that Golovkin started slow. Well Round 4 was still part of that slow start. Canelo that round went to the ropes, but unlike the 5th, in the 4th he wasn't caught with anything while on the ropes. Golovkin was starting to close the distance in the 4th and the body language started to change, but he still couldn't land on Canelo, so I gave that round to Canelo.

Not to go on and on about this, but we are 3 months away from the rematch OK. So lets get excited about this great rematch. But when I watch your video, you continue to harp on the Byrd card like it was just so completely out there. But yet in many of those middle rounds, Canelo was landing the better punches. For you to say the Byrd card is crazy, you have to literally ignore and discount who was landing the better more impactful punches round after round.

If you instinctively score rounds to the aggressor or the fighter who throws more punches, regardless of how well they land, then I can see how you'd score some of those middle rounds to Golovkin, but you have to pay attention to who landed the better punches. Even in round 7, for Trella to give Canelo the round, well he was clearly outworked and I thought Golovkin deserved to win the rounds, but Canelo still arguably landed the best 2 or 3 punches of the round. The sequence with 2 minutes left in the round with the counter punches, the uppercut towards the end of the round.

That's a round that Golovkin should have won, but still I wouldn't say he did the better work. Just the more sustained work. I mean that was Golovkin's best 90 seconds of the fight in the middle of that 7th round. But outside of those 90 seconds, Canelo was doing the better work.

So we have to keep things in perspective with the Byrd card. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with it and mentioning it, but lets not act like you couldn't give rounds 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, and 11 to Canelo. You could give those rounds to him, if you score fights based on who landed the btter overall punches, and how had the better defense. The only round where Canelo's defense wa really lacking in the entire fight was round 7, which was why I gave it to Golovkin. It wasn't just the volume from G in those middle 90 seconds, it was how clean Golovkin's punches landed. Still Trella wasn't swayed by those, and probably Trella gave Canelo the 7th because he recognized how close the 6th was and felt like it would be wrong to give Golovkin two rounds in a row with Canelo landed big uppercuts.

All that said, may the best man win in September, but I think we need to recognize that judging boxing is subjective, and if you can admit that the rounds were close, even if you don't think they were toss-ups, it shouldn't be that crazy if one of the judges gives several close rounds to the guy landing the better punches. (regardless of aggression or volume) I think too often judges are swayed by aggression and volume when they should be more focused on punch quality and impact, i.e. the best punches in the round, the boxer who is slipping punches, etc.

 

Even Bob Bennett told me Byrd had a bad night! He admitted it! Lederman had it 8 rounds to 4 Golovkin, Paulie had it 9 rounds to 3 Golovkin, Nacho Beristain had Golovkin winning, I had Golovkin winning 8 rounds to 4, could also see Paulie's card as well. The crowed booed the decision and the people interviewed were not happy with the decision at all.

 

Defense, Clean Hard Punches, Ring Generalship, and Effective agression need to be factored when scoring a pro fight.

Right of the bat Canelo easily wom defense and clean hard punches thoughout most of the fight.

That leaves Ring Generalship and Effective aggression. Was Golovkin's aggression effective? He's usually a very aggressive and accurate puncher, but against Canelo he only landed 30% of his punches thrown, the ones that landed clean were few and mostly jabs, I think he only landed a small handful of clean power punches. Golovkin did try to KO Canelo, he just couldn't land clean.

It was a close fight indeed, and each fighter brought out the best and the worst in each other if that makes sense, for that reason I feel the rematch is very important. This is not a 12 round type fight, this is a 24+ round type fight.

I would not mind seeimg a rubber match if it comes down to that, but ai definitely think after this fight both fighters need to fight the other top MWs and then revisit each other.

 

Yeah I would be happy with a Trilogy and a quick turnaround for a 3rd fight in December if the rematch produces a remotely close decision. (Last month DLH said he plans on Canelo fighting December as well since he missed his usual May date and he's always fought at least twice a year)

I got to be honest, I understand the outrage over the Byrd card when it was announced. But I think at this point the complaining about it is just getting redundant. Like Rumsfeld's video was solid, he made many good points, and frankly he recognizes stuff that many Golovkin fans like to ignore, but then I think on 3 separate times he mentioned the Byrd card lol. It's like OK we get it, giving Canelo 10 rounds is a bit of a stretch. But when it comes to discussing the Byrd card I feel like I'm back in high school trying to talk to the popular preppy kids lol.

It's perfectly reasonable to have Canelo winning the fight by several rounds, if you value quality punching Golovkin was not in Canelo's league. He just wasn't. Whether that's giving Canell 7, 8, 9 rounds, even a totally crazy 10 rounds, IS DEBATABLE. It depends how much value value aggression vs quality clean impactful effective punching. Maybe Golovkin will be able to close that gap in the rematch with a different strategy, but I have my doubts.

I do think Golovkin is in better shape this year than he was last year. He didn't look healthy last September when he walked into the ring. he looked drained, and vs Vanes Golovkin looked healthier. So I do think Golovkin may be better this time around, but I also think Canelo will be a better verison of himself as well.

I think both fighters will come into the rematch looking better than last year, and I do expect another back and forth affair. Probably Golovkin will start better and maybe will win some of the early rounds, but I think what could happen is Golovkin may feel like he's doing better early on and then get over confident and get caught with something, and Canelo could take over in the middle rounds.

 

I think so, GGG will not leave it to the judges this time, if Canelo wants to slug it out we might have a battle for the ages on our hands, but every boxing fan knows slugging it out with GGG is suicide.

I hope we see a good fight with a fair result if it comes to a decision, however I don't think it will come down to that this time around, GGG knows Canelo can't hurt him, Canelo wasnn't overly bothered with any of the GGG punches, he was hurt 2 or 3 times but never close to going down. I expect full on aggression from both men.

 

GGG was hurt several times as well but never close to going down. Those uppercuts in rounds 6-8 hurt Golovkin. Both men have granite chins so it's gonna take a lot for either guy to get dropped despite both fighter's big punching power.

 

Stamina can be trained, but a professional world lever fighter like Canelo has already his best possible stamina. He wont improve at that area. Some guys just can't go 12 hard rounds. Even professional athletes can't go 12 hard rounds.
Why:
- Personal preparation (canelo, check)
- opponent (full time pressure from ggg is very draining)
- event (big event, they all have nerves and worrys)
- weather in the arena ( it could be hot and high humidity)

GGG is even for his age an absolute trainingsmachine and everytime perfectly prepared and is doing this without real breaks for 25 years. Of course gus stamina is top notch)