'Canelo had an off night'

GGG is 40 and counting, Canelo will win convincingly this time, and who at 168 beats Canelo ? I need to know, because otherwise he dominates 168. The fact that 168 is a bone dry division means nobody probably will.

Like Canelo or Hate him, nobody from 160-168 is beating the guy anytime soon. That is the reality of things. Had GGG stayed 36. He would and would sadly get robbed, but he's not, he's middle aged, he has one foot out the door and he has nothing for Canelo now.

Just because Bivol beat him like i kept trying to tell people he would, doesn't mean Canelo wasn't a good fighter

 

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/bivol-is-coming-to-spar-canelo.685905/:confused

 

Okay well you didnt say anything here.

And I'm repeating myself 36 yo GGG beat Canelo twice 8-4. Canelo has degressed after losing to GGG. Golovkin is 40, had a long lay off, still took punches from an arguably heavier handed Murata, Olympic gold medalist, then broke him down in emphatic fashion. Canelo coming off a loss going into Golovkin fight and the loss to Bivol may have given further blueprints as to how to beat him against the judhes.

Sigh, it's really painful having to repeat myself.

What so you can't cherrypick champions/weak divisions? Is that what you really are arguing? There have been many poor undeserving champions that have come and gone.. Let me just name one, Charles Martin.

Im not repeating what I said about all the cherrypicking cardstacking context that was considered for all of Canelo's fights at 168. Can you at least acknowledge these?

BJS, Callum Smith and Plant were absolutely cherrypicks.

Yes because Canelo is a huge knockout artist right. Didn't knock anyone out at 154lbs apart from chinny 140lbr Khan. Knocked no one out at 160lbs. Plant looked more gassed/exhausted than knocked out. Billy Joe leant face first into a fully cocked back uppercut, his legs didn't go and he still managed to walk of the last round.

Repeating myself again - Charlo has same dimensions as Bivol (+longee reach) Hits very hard, is quite a fast counterpuncher, has a very heavy vicious jab, and always comes to win/fight. Canelos opponents at 168 were backfoot types who clearly did not come to fight and press the action.

No. You said Canelo dominated everyone at 160-168 quite comfortably. I argued against that and used the fact he was losing rounds (and many had opponents up on the scorecards) against cardstacked cherrypicked opponents.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong. And no, as I've said it's up for debate.

Well Andrade hasn't beaten anybody. Doesn't mean the attributes I listed he has doesn't make a for an uncomfortable fight for Canelo. You're assuming Canelo wins against Andrade because of his highly cherrypicked and cardstacked opposition he fought at 168 (which is all true)

No, if Charlo started not looking himself, pitty pattying throughout the fight, not extending punches all fight - then id suggest he didn't come to win. Stop trying to give Canelo undue credit.

No I wouldn't. Deryvachenko beat Charlo 7-5 and deserved ag least a draw against Jacobs. Ive said this time and time again. Youre just tying to give Canelo undue credit.

You said Canelo would dominate everyone at 160 quite comfortably. No he wouldn't given his cherrypicked run at 168. At given the several attributes I've already mentioned of Dervyahcnenko that is stylistic a bad match up for Canelo.

Benavidez has no good wins true. But if he came to win he'd certainly make it uncomfortable for Canelo if not win 7-5, 8-4. I've already made my position clear on this. But I'll repeat it again. Benavidez is a huge 168lber, massive dimensions, fast varied combos, volume puncher.. All a bad match up for Canelo.

No, what I'm doing is not giving him undue credit like fans do because there so desperate to worship some manufactured demigod.

Again, I've explained that Canelo's wins at 168 are all smokes and mirrors due to cherrypicking /cardstacking. He also has 5 losses - so he is far from unbeatable people make out he is... 36yo GGG 2, Lara, 36yo Mayweather, and Bivol

 

I wouldn't go that far to say he as favored before the fight and now he is not on his level.. Sometimes styles make fights and all that.. I don't buy the off night thing, excuses take away from the winner. Canelo lost to a guy who did everything right.

 

Murata has beaten no one, has no head movement, slow feet, slow hands, and blocks punches with his face. Both Suanders and Plant would school Murata. GGG is 40. He is old, even more hittable, vulnerable to the body, and even slower than before. let it go. He used to be an excellent fighter but not anymore. He is on retirements door and Canelo would open it for him.

Whomever gets their prediction correct is the one that keeps their credibility on this matter. I predict Canelo works the body and eventually tees off on GGG, winning 8 rounds and getting a clear decision.

Canelo wanted to become undisputed at 168, so answer me this, how does Canelo become undisputed champion at super middleweight without fighting the champions ? ...... crickets

Even if they were mediocre, criticizing Canelo for collecting the belts off of them and calling it cherrypicking is beyond ridiculous in the context that Canelo clearly wanted to become the first undisputed man at 168 during the 4 belt era.

Ever heard of PEDs ? You criticize Canelo for his PED usage but then backtrack and refer to much earlier in his Career when he was a smaller man at a smaller weight. Canelo has already KO'd guys around Charlos size. It's a moot point

Charlo is not on Bivols level . God they have completely different styles too. Charlo didn't want to fight Jacobs. He's a decent fighter but he's protected. The reality is when or if Canelo wins, you wouldn't give Canelo credit, Charlo would get outboxed and out countered.

Also isn't Andrade a backfoot fighter who would avoid pressing the action against Canelo ? But yes Andrade would give him nightmares too right ?

It's not up for debate, like i said. Nobody at 160 or 168 beats Canelo anytime soon. Charlo loses, Deryvanchenko is overrated, Benavidez loses in a competitive fight, and Andrade is no better than Billy Joe Saunders. Andrade is a southpaw like Billy Joe, undefeated like Billy Joe, and a slick outboxer like Billy Joe. Andrade would get KO'd just like Billy Joe. Maybe when Canelo on the wrong side of 30, thats when he loses at 160 and 168.

Youre assuming Andrade has a good chance because of wins against tin cans. Andrade is nothing special. Canelo would beat him and would probably stop him. Trust me when he gets exposed don't say i didn't warn you

Deryvanchenko beat Charlo ?????? Do you need Glasses ? Even people who didn't like Charlo had it 115-113 Charlo. If you want we could make a poll

Canelo would beat Benavidez. He would pressure Benavidez and break him down. Benavidez is not an outboxer, and is not that skilled and he is not on Bivols level. Two completely different class of fighters. Benavidez's size makes it competitive but thats it

Yep and when Canelo beats the corpse of GGG, Andrade, Charlo, and Benavidez it'll still be smoke and mirrors

 

My point was that he really didn't beat GGG the first two fights. As I've mentioned in another thread if a 3rd fight happens at 168 it will be interesting. Yes GGG has slowed down some but then Canelo is a lot slower since moving up and looked lathargic against Bivol.
It may well end with Canelo edging GGG out and actually beating him but we won''t know till it happens.
Also my point about the belt holders at 168 still stands. Saunders was a career Middle who barely trained and looked garbage at Super. Smith was just too big for the weight and was injured and just lookung to survive. Plant had fought nobody of note and Yilfdrim was a nobody.
I think there's a few like Benavidez that would definately give Canelo a decent fight who are young and have some venom so it's not as clear cut as your making out. Taking into account Canelo has had the benefit of the jufges in several fights at the lower weights.

 

We actually agree on something. Good lad

 

Doubtful Lil g can beat Charlo, Andrade and CEJ now. Canelo will literally slaughter him now.

 

Do you not think the weight had anything to do with it? His first fight back at LHW.

The rematch should be at SMW and we'll see if that make a difference.

We'll see what happens.

 

This same Bellew thought his mate Callum Smith would beat Canelo.

 

Sorry how did Billy Jane Saunders win 4 or 5 rounds against Canelo. Which exact rounds were this. What I saw was domination by Canelo before he made the silly ***** quit.

 

I have

 

@Quina74

 

Lmao the Plant and Saunders who fought Canelo would not school Murata. Murata hits ****ing hard and has a chin. You see how many heavy shots he took from GGG. Plant and Saunders don't have the accuracy, timing or the power GGG has. Even 40 year old GGG has this. Murata was walking forward for half of the fight throwing heavy bodyshots. Saunders has had hit and miss fights like I've explained.. (repeating things again) Arguably lost against Akavov, Ryder, narrow W Against Eubank, narrow w against on the slice Andy Lee and looked subpar against all opposition at 168lbs. I'd favour Murata over the Billy Joe that Canelo.

No. I have made it clear 2 or 3 times now that I am countering one of your points : that Canelo does not dominant everyone quite comfortably at 160-168. And that remains absolutely true for my aforementioned reasons.

Because this somehow means he didn't cherrypick them at the right times along stack the deck?.... Crickets

Ive explained exactly what he was doing cherrypicking and cardstacking. If you want to go ahead and claim he didn't at least go back to my points and tell me what context around 168lbers I mentioned is wrong? Because you haven't done that. You've just claimed there not cherrypicks because you said so

Canelo KOd guys around Charlo size? Who? Charlo is a 168lbervdrained to 160. Canelo hasn't knocked out anyone. Billu was still standing and his legs looked pretty stable after leaning down into a fully cocked uppercut. If he was a true KO artist, Billy would have been flat out. But no legs fine, and he carried on for last half of the round. Plant just looked exhausted. Kovalev was as blatant as a fixed fight as it gets.

Where did I say they have the same styles? I'm staying that Charlo has attributes that cause Canelo problems. Height/reach/v heavy puncher/pretty fast counterpuncher/vicious jab/come to fight attitude.

You are making false comparisons. Andrade attributes as for my reasons listed would give Canelo problems

You missed all the valid context about Billy I explained in detail therefore your argument is null. Deryvanchenko is not overrated. You really don't know what you are watching.

Oh so you can criticise Andrade resume with context. But you can't take into account context when I apply it to Canelo's fights at 168. Ook then

No he didn't. Some people had him up. I was the only person who scored that fight in detail three times. Charlo has a poor case for 6 rounds let alone 7.

Again. Benavidez size, combination punching, volume punching, speed is a nightmare for Canelo.

 

I hate this annoying *****.