Canelo v. Hagler's Top Middleweight Opponents?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Aug 14, 2016.


  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    How do you all think Canelo Alvarez would fare against Antuofermo, Hamsho, Sibson, and Minter?

    I think that he would do very well. Although he's been draining down to 155 the day before his fights, he enters the ring a much bigger man than any of them (and I think he's even taller and with a longer reach than all of them except Minter). Throws far more devastating combinations, probably has more punching power than any of them (other than maybe Sibson), and is probably better defensively. I'd give some of them advantages in stamina and use of fouling tactics though.
     
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  2. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wow. Just wow. I'm afraid Canelo is getting vastly overrated here on ESB. Devastating combos? Really? He has quick hands and is a decent (at best and at 154) puncher, but he couldn't take out Miguel Cotto and the better version of Miguel was hammered at welter by Margo and Pac. That also applies to the 'enters the ring a much bigger man than all of them except Minter,' so what, especially if he can't even take out small, past it, already knocked out Miguel at 155? Since when is Canelo known for his massive strength? The Hamsho that beat Benitez walks right through Canelo and roughs him up. He has nothing to keep Hamsho off of him. Btw, I take Benitez over Canelo as well. The Antuofermo that beat Corro walks right through him. Minter jabs him to death as Canelo is not known for his swift footwork and defensive ability. Sibson was a nasty puncher-especially that he was a middleweight hitting other middleweights and knocking them out. If he, who rehydrated to lightheavy Saul actually had a successful track record against middleweights, you might have had a valid point. He doesn't, and you don't. Oh wait, he did stop Khan.
     
  3. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Antufermo has so much more stamina, he'd win pretty clearly imo.
     
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  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    You're putting way too much emphasis on the fact that Canelo didn't stop Cotto. Canelo's power gets overrated at times but you're kidding yourself if you think he's so feather-fisted that these guys just "walk through him." Someone like Antuofermo is tailor-made for him and Hamsho is in the same category. Strong, face-first tough guys are his strong suit, especially when they don't even have exceptional speed or power.

    Pacquiao stopped Cotto because he hit him more than twice as many times as Canelo did and his hand and foot speed absolutely killed Cotto. Cotto ate hard, flush punches that he never saw coming all night. Margarito threw 1,000 punches and had the plaster (you know what happened in the rematch).

    The point about Canelo being bigger than those guys is important because I'm sure that many people would otherwise have the flawed knee-jerk reaction that because they fought at 160 and Canelo didn't, they're bigger, stronger, and more powerful than him. Canelo is a huge 154/155lber-- probably one of the biggest beneficiaries of day-before weigh-ins in the history of the sport.

    You seem to have a caricature of Canelo. Not sure what you've heard about his defense but it's better than Minter's, imo. Very underrated head movement will help him get inside Minter's jab enough to do damage and Minter, who was never particularly elusive, had a lack of head movement that would enable Canelo to counter him.
     
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  5. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What Canelo opponent that he's fought has come into the ring heavier than Canelo? Besides, I never wrote Canelo was featherfisted. Where did you get that from? The fact remains that Cotto, whose prime was 147, was stopped there twice by smaller men than Canelo. That's a fact. The point you made about Canelo being huge after rehydrating is irrelevant because he is simply not proven against any middleweights. None. Antuofermo and Hamsho had great chins at middleweight, not 154. Yes, they walk through Canelo, who has never even hit a professional middleweight. There is nothing to back up any of your statements. For Christsake, a better version of Mayweather than the one that beat Canelo, went life and death with a DeLaHoya that was past his best. DeLaHoya must wish he were on the go now and had Saul as a payday fight.
     
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  6. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    I don't get how this is relevant. None of the Hagler opponents I named were heavier than him either...

    Figure of speech. But however you want to describe his strength and punching power, they're not walking through him.

    And other than the part about Margarito's plaster, all the things I stated about those fights in comparison to Canelo-Cotto were facts too.

    You're missing the point. Guys like Angulo, Kirkland, and Lara are middleweights if they have to weigh in the day of the fight (and Canelo would probably ruin himself even trying to make 160 the day of a fight). The Sibson who knocked out Minter is smaller than all of them.

    But what does that have to do with anything?
     
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  7. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If you say so. Actually, Hamsho went 11 with Hagler, who is obviously a bigger puncher than Canelo. Antuofermo went 15 with Hagler,who is obviously a better puncher than Canelo. Yes, they walk through Canelo. Why are you even mentioning Kirkland? It doesn't matter if he comes in at 180. He's useless. At 154, Canelo is a good belt holder with decent power. Nothing more, nothing less. You are vastly overrating him. Once again, which one of Canelo's opponents have come in at the same weight or more on fight night? Then, quite frankly, it appears Canelo is always picking on naturally smaller men. Even look at Canelo wanting nothing to do with GGG at 160, a fighter that comes in lighter than Canelo even though he fights at middleweight lol. The last statement in my previous post is relevant because it appears that a past it and fighting above his prime weight DeLaHoya is every bit as good if not better than a close to prime, natural 154 pounder in Canelo.
     
  8. LouisA

    LouisA Active Member Full Member

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    I would give Canelo a good chance against the guys mentioned. He is very good when the opponents come to him. Underrated defense, fast hands, solid power and excellent counter punching skills. It's his leaden feet that is his main problem.

    Off the Hagler challangers I think Hearns and Leonard would be hardest fights for him. I would pick both to beat him.

    I don't really see how De La Hoya is relevant to this match up, but for the record I would pick him to beat most of Hagler's middleweight opponents as well.
     
  9. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I will repeat it again because you obviously didn't read the previous post. A past his best and fighting above his prime weight DeLaHoya looked better against Mayweather than a close to prime and fighting at his optimal weight Canelo did. Comprende? My point is that Canelo is getting overrated around here. And you would pick DLH against most of Hagler's middleweight opponents as well? Based on what, his 156 pound catchweight ko loss to Hopkins, or his 'scintillating victory' over Felix Sturm? Well at least you picked Hearns and Leonard to beat him, as if that was even in question:lol:.
     
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  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I doubt Alvarez would beat all those guys.
    There's a reason he's been fighting the likes of Amir Khan and James Kirkland.
     
  11. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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  12. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think he struggles against all four, I don't get any Canelo love fest at middleweight, he's done nothing there.
    He couldn't stop Matthew Hatton and struggled against Ryan Rhodes at light middleweight both nowhere near the durability of Hamsho and Antuorfermo and both infinitely inferior to their fellow Brits Minter and Sibson. If we're assuming he meets these at their best I think he really only beats Vito and that's a stretch.
     
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  13. HerolGee

    HerolGee Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Canelo isnt winning much here, with several losses.

    INteresting too is the reverse with hagler facing canelos - prime hagler walks them all down, including mayweather, though ostensibly his toughest fight.

    However in realist terms he wont fight themall when priome, he will age as he fights each one and rests between bouts and trains for them...and its obvious to anyone who knows floyd that he'd wait till hagler was older before facing him, so money might well outpoint him.
     
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  14. LouisA

    LouisA Active Member Full Member

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    Yes, comprendo. But I fail to see how that's relevant? DHL had quick feet and was far better than Alvarez at dealing with slick boxers.Even passed his prime DHL matches up better against Mayweather, who has the worst possible style for Alvarez. Styles make fights.

    I would pick DHL to beat most of Haglers challengers (but not all) based on how he looked fighting at 154. You do realise that light middleweights in that era weighed in as middleweights?

    They never fought so of course it is in question.

    I don't know why you feel the need to be rude just because I disagree with your picks, but that's your right I guess.

    Again, I would give Canelo a good chance against all the names mentioned. I admit it's not a confident pick though. I not sure about Alvarez chin for example, and his apparent lack of stamina is worrying. It would be good to see him fight some big strong middleweights to see how he deals with their punches, and how they react to his. Beating Khan really proved nothing at all.
     
  15. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Do you think that Canelo was already at his best against Matthew Hatton and Rhodes? He's gotten appreciably better (and bigger) since then.
     
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