Canelo vs ATGs/HOFs

Ok idiot green Canelo still beats Tiro especially if Tito doesn't throw low blows and DLH at 154 at 160 Canelo might stop them at 168 Canelo kills them

 

Unfortunately for Canelo. That 'Draw' against GGG in the first fight when literally anyone with eyes could see he clearly lost has harmed his resume and reputation more than had he officially lost. Its the human phsyche. If he had just lost, admitted he lost , taken it like a man and the come back and won the rematch (which i also think he lost but hats beside the point). Then he would have gained far far more respect and kudos . Its that one tarnished and obviously fiddled decision that has and will follow him around for the rest of his career. You simply dont gain the respect of the people when you dont have the respect in yourself to admit you lost

 

Up until now what future HOF / ATGs has Canelo actually fought?

Mayweather - Wide UD loss - but Canelo was still on the gree side, so fair enough there.
Cotto - Catchweight and Cotto was WELL past prime, but a good scalp.
GGG 1/II - Arguably GGG was past-prime in I, where Canelo got an official draw but anyone that KSAB gave that to GGG. In II, GGG was now well past-prime and although I had it a bit closer I still had it 115-113 to GGG. But Canelo get's the official nod, so a a very good one for the resume and the best evidence to guage Canelo on most of the other names here.
Kovalev? - Unclear if Kov will get HOF, and I wouldn't count this farce of a victory anyway. Wodka-soaked short-camped and still recovering from Yarde fight. Canelo gets nothing from me for that win.

So Canelo has beaten ZERO prime future HOF / ATGs, yet he's gonna smoke the likes of Hagler, Ward, Zags, Toney, McCallum and others?

Not buying it.

 

Olu G. Rotimi must have brainworms.

Canelo beats Hopkins but loses to Trinidad at 160?

 

you're such a clueless pathetic fanboy.

 

So who you pick to beat Canelo at 168? Tito? DLH? SRL? Or does Canelo duck them all??

 

It was a close MD loss, not wide UD loss. 116-112, 117-111, 114-114 is not wide. A green, weight drained Canelo gave Floyd's fits and came as close as anyone besides Castillo to beating Floyd. A full strength, non-drained Canelo would have done even better vst Floyd back then. Canelo back then was still developing as a fighter, and he has improved a lot since then.

Cotto needed that catchweight, a bigger Canelo would have been too dangerous for past prime Cotto.

IKSAB and I scored both matches for Canelo. GGG tried really hard and threw more punches in the first fight, but Canelo won rounds 1-3 & 10-12, so it was a draw at mimimum, I also gave Canelo round 4 and possibly round 6 which was a very close round. Round 5 was also close and could have gone either way but I gave that to GGG for finally doing something after being outboxed the first 4 rounds. Anywhere from a draw to a 7-5, 8-4 Canelo win in the first fight is reasonable. A close GGG win is arguable but such a score in my view is based on emotion and expectations of what people thought GGG would do to Canelo, and not paying enough attention to clean punching. Giving that first fight to GGG is just a way for people to save face who predicted a massive GGG win which never happened.

The 2nd fight in my estimation is harder to score, particularly the last 5 rounds which could have went either way. The first 7 rounds were pretty easy to score, with Canelo winning 5 rounds to 2 after the first 7 rounds. Outside of brief big moment from GGG in the 10th round, he did not land enough power punches. He did land a lot of jabs, but Canelo outlanded GGG in body shots, power punches and was the aggressor throughout. It doesn't matter that GGG's back never hit the ropes, which is what GGG fans say when you bring up Canelo's effective aggression. All that proves is that GGG was terrified of hitting the ropes because he don't know how to fight off the ropes like Canelo displayed in the first match.

Any true student of boxing knows that Canelo deserved to win both fights. You can't take expectations into a match of that magnitude and use what you predicted to score close rounds. Canelo landed the better more impactful more significant shots in the majority of rounds in both matches. That's how matches are scored. Sorry GGG fans, I know this truth hurts, GGG fought admirably and you should be proud of his performances, but in the end Canelo was just too good for GGG to beat.

It was a sensational knockout. The performance over the first 10 rounds was underwhelming, but the knockout more than made up for it. You can discount this win all you want, but plenty of posters on this forum predicted a Kovalev win. No one would have ever thought that Canelo would go on to knockout Kovalev back when Canelo was fighting at 154 or even at 160. Even a slightly diminished Kovalev is no excuse, for Canelo to move up multiple weight classes and knock out a legitimate LHW World Title Holder, a guy who many people thought beat Andre Ward just a few years before is a phenomenal achievement.

That's a false equivalency. Beating a prime future HOF / ATG isn't a requirement to conclude that he would beat ATGs in a fantasy matchup. Beating a slightly past prime GGG is arguably a tougher test than some prime ATGs. James Toney's prime for example lasted a short time. James was not "prime" when he got dominated by RJJ. That was an out of shape / Past prime Toney even though he was still young. If you are putting Canelo up against the absolute best versions of Hagler, Ward, Toney etc then obviously it would be hard to imagine any fighter in history beating the best versions of those guys. Ward for example was still considered prime when he fought Kovalev the first time but he was knocked down and arguably beat. Canelo vs LHW Ward from the first Kovalev fight would be a very even fight. But SMW Ward would be much tougher for Canelo to beat. LHW Ward from the 2nd Kovalev fight was a much better version of Ward which would be tougher for Canelo to beat.

When you look at how dominant and impressive Canelo was vs Callum Smith and Saunders, it's clear that he could hang against even the best ATGs and fight any of these guys tooth and nail. It doesn't mean he would clearly beat prime Hagler, Ward, Toney, McCallum etc, but he's certainly good enough to give any of those guys hell. He's certainly capable of beating any of those guys, but it doesn't mean he would. Some people will understandably pick Ward or Hagler vs Canelo, but with Hagler it's harder to argue he would beat Canelo since Canelo is at 168 and Hagler was at 160. Maybe the Canelo from a few years back who fought GGG would struggle with a prime Hagler, that's fair, but this version of Canelo, Hagler was great but Hagler never fought a Prime 168-lb like Canelo so that would be a big ask for Hagler.

 

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Keep telling yourself that buddy! Claiming that was anything but a schooling proves that you DKSAB!

 

I'm stating facts bro. It was not a UD let alone wide. You saying a close MD was a wide UD doesn't magically change what happened. Detach from Mayweather's nuts. He struggled mightily that night. You can't gleam much from this result, except what was obvious, that even a lesser version of Canelo came close to beating Mayweather. If a less than average, still developing Canelo could come that close to beating Mayweather, that shows that any version of Canelo was very capable of beating Mayweather. Mayweather won that match by out jabbing Canelo. With more head movement from Canelo which he developed as a result of that experience, it's a very even matchup.

 

Best version of Canelo at the weight so far, and best version of opponents:
(Large font bold wins; small font loses)


154:
Oscar De La Hoya
Felix Trinidad
Sugar Ray Leonard
Wilfred Benitez
Mike McCallum
Roberto Duran


160:
Marvin Hagler
Sugar Ray Leonard
Roberto Duran
Gennady Golovkin (Prime)
Bernard Hopkins
James Toney
Mike McCallum
Felix Trinidad


168:
Andre Ward
Mikkel Kessler
Carl Froch
Chris Eubank Sr.
James Toney
Joe Calzaghe
Sven Ottke